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Thread: PTR 91 Inc. PTR-91 vs. JLD Enterprises PTR-91 vs. Heckler & Koch HK-91

  1. #1
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    Exclamation PTR 91 Inc. vs. JLD Enterprises PTR91 vs. Heckler & Koch HK-91

    The Difference

    According to PTR 91 Inc. and professional reviews, the newer PTR-91 is designed to be more accurate than the standard HK-91 and this requires closer tolerances in the rifle. As a result, PTR only recommends using new commercial ammunition and not old surplus which may cause problems. PTR-91 Inc. uses Thompson Center and Green Mountain match barrel blanks on the PTR-91 to achieve greater accuracy. PTR 91, Inc, turns, chambers, and flutes the blank barrels themselves.

    In the Shooting Illustrated review, the PTR-91 shot groups of less than 2" with standard 150 grain commercial ammunition:



    AW Serial Prefix - Latest are 1:12 twist. These rifles have tighter match barrels and chambers and will not function well with old tar surplus ammo. HKPRO members have noticed the main difference is the chamber fluting is more shallow and shorter than an original HK91. While the tighter chamber and flutes results in less gas escaping rearward through the chamber, possibly contributing to better accuracy, it also causes extraction issues with tar sealed surplus ammo. Other types of surplus work fine, including Russian and Chinese steel case.

    A Serial Prefix - original JLD Enterprises PTR-91 rifles, most of which used the original HK91 12 flute barrel specifications and as a result shoot nearly all types of old surplus well, including tar sealed. There are also 10 flute rifles and tar surplus reliability reports vary on these. A benefit of these older rifles is that they often come with original German HK and licensed parts. Watch out for very low serial numbers, as there are reports of some of the first couple of hundred rifles produced ten years ago having some trunnion problems - these rifles were fixed by JLD, but it's possible there are still a few out there.

    GI Serial Prefix - Latest are 1:10 twist. The latest PTR91 version from PTR-91 Inc., sold as "Special Edition." These use the original HK91 barrel, chamber specifications, and profile and should function well with all surplus ammo at a slight cost to accuracy. Here's a quote from PTR-91 Inc:

    Quote Originally Posted by PTR-91 Inc. View Post
    The “special edition” PTR-91 is called the PTR G.I....The barrel on the G.I.’s is tapered to be thinner in the front and was made with a chamber wider than the actual round, just like the original HK91’s. With a wider chamber, it allows you to fire anything you want, but does sacrifice some accuracy when comparing to your PTR SC. These were made as close as possible to the original HK91’s in fit and function(including ammo tolerance, kickback and accuracy). In testing, we have seen that the G.I. will fire almost anything, including tar sealed ammo.
    B & BW Serial Prefix - These are not factory rifles. These are receivers sold to 3rd party builders.

    Ultra Reliability - If you want ultimate reliability, then most would probably recommend an actual Heckler & Koch HK91, but expect to pay twice as much as a PTR91 due to their high quality and collectible value.

    Cheaper Options - The Portuguese FMP XG3S and the Greek EBO G3 imported by Springfield Armory as SAR-8 (avoid the D.C. Industries aluminum receiver which is bad) are both options from HK licensed manufacturers which can be purchased used for under $1200. The Century International Arms CETME rifles are generally considered low quality and can be found for $500-600.


    Parts Kits - You can also purchase G3 kits for about $350-500 and either build them yourself or have them professionally built for $795 or less.


    New PTR-91 With Match Barrel

    Before anything else, use 100 rounds of PTR 91 Inc. recommended ammo, "commercial .308 like Federal 150gr fmj or Remington 150 gr fmj," on your first shoots. That way you can make sure that the rifle works with the ammo they are recommending while you still have a warranty. After that you can begin trying other types. Remington UMC is sold at Walmart.

    Current ammo recommendation:
    Quote Originally Posted by PTR 91, Inc
    For liability reasons, PTR-91 Inc. does not recommend the use of reloads or surplus ammunition. If surplus ammunition is used, beware that this ammunition varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, lot to lot, year to year, components used and processes in manufacturing. Please keep in mind that most surplus ammo is either tar sealed or lacquered finished. When firing surplus ammo, you will need to clean the rifle more than if you were shooting newly manufactured commercial ammunition.


    Used PTR-91 With Ammo Problems

    HART1 of HKPRO offers a flute re-cutting service for $75 plus $10 S/H here. He also made an offer to re-cut flutes in one PTR91 barrel for free to demonstrate the fluting is the problem. For the offer, you have to be able to record before and after videos of the rifle firing the same surplus ammo to show everyone. Details here.

    Otherwise, if your rifle is failing and it's still under warranty here's what you should do:

    1. Follow the Recommended Cleaning Procedures in the Owners Manual. Make sure to completely clean out the flutes in the chamber, the bore, and the trunnion behind the barrel with high quality bore solvent. PTR 91 Inc. warns on their website that they will charge, "gunsmith time, ammunition cost and returned shipping," if they find the rifle is not functioning due to surplus ammunition.

    2. Then try PTR's recommended ammo, which is, "commercial .308 like Federal 150gr fmj or Remington 150 gr fmj." You should probably try at least 100 rounds to be on the safe side. Remington 150 UMC is sold at Walmart. Record any failures and the exact type of failure and ammo i.e. 25th round, Federal 150gr fmj - failure to extract, 38th round, Remington 150gr fmj - stovepipe. It might be a good idea to take a camera with you to take photos of failures.

    3. If you have failures with the recommended ammo in a well cleaned rifle, then the problem is obviously the rifle. You should request an RA# (Return Authorization number) from PTR. Write up your request and results in an email or letter and keep a copy so that you have a record of your communication and send it to PTR 91 Inc. at info@ptr91.com or P.O. Box 562, Unionville CT 06085.

    4. Once you get an RA#, put a copy of your letter along with the rifle in a padded case, box it up so you can't tell a rifle is inside, and ship it to PTR with the RA# included on the shipping label or package.

    Send to:
    ATTN: Repair Dept.
    PTR91 Inc
    1451 New Britain Ave
    Farmington, CT. 06032
    RA#

    PTR has more info here


    PTR91 General Troubleshooting Tips

    Quote Originally Posted by jeray View Post
    There are a few things to do before you re-barrel, that may save you some time and expense.

    1. Change the Locking lever spring out for a surplus one from RobertRTG. Some of the later PTRs have Locking lever springs that are too strong which can require more force than it should to unlock the bolt. This can cause the short-cycle. It's easy to do too. Disassemble the bolt carrier group. Drive out the pin that holds the lever in (make sure not to let the lever or spring go flying when it comes all the way out. Install new spring. $1.50 Here's the Link

    2. Get a factory HK locking-piece/Firing Pin Assembly from RobertRTG. Replace the Firing Pin, FP spring and locking piece with one of these kits. Even if it doesn't solve the problem, these are parts that are good to have as spares. $20 Here's the Link

    Also, we need to know what your Bolt Gap measurement is. Measure it with a feeler gauge through the magwell after cycling the action and dropping the hammer (make sure it's clear first... I know, I know). In-spec should be .020" - .005"
    Quote Originally Posted by spqr476 View Post
    My locking lever spring was out of spec on the high side, and replacing it allowed me to shoot Radway out of my 91KPF for a while....it would run 2-3 mags of Radway before choking and maybe do 10-20 rds of SA before choking starting from a clean barrel. This was an improvement, since it would choke on the first round of SA and do less than a mag of Radway with the old spring. Manual unlocking was also a LOT easier. Both rifles run, and always have run, 100% on Wolf steel cased, FED AE, Port, and anything else that isnt' tar sealed.

    My F initially would run tar sealed about as well as the KPF did after the locking lever spring. I ran it with a #18 LP for a while when shooting tar sealed, and it would run radway 100%, SA almost 100%, and would still choke on Belgian/DAG. It maybe was a little rough on the extractor doing that, but it worked OK. Recoil was Higher than stock LP for sure.
    Last edited by Andrew; 08-27-2011 at 05:45 AM. Reason: update

  2. #2
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    Thumbs down PTR COVER UP

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    If you have a new unfired PTR-91

    Before anything else, use 100 rounds of PTR 91 Inc. recommended ammo, "commercial .308 like Federal 150gr fmj or Remington 150 gr fmj," on your first shoots. That way you can make sure that the rifle works with the ammo they are recommending while you still have a warranty. After that you can begin trying other types.

    Here is the current list of ammo PTR 91 Inc. says causes problems in their PTR91:
    • South African
    • Winchester white boxes marked 7.62,
    • Venezuela Cavim
    • Austrian (Hirtenberger)
    • Some lots of German
    • British (under powered) will not cycle action
    • Indian (Over powered)
    http://ptr91.com/techinfo.html


    If you have a used PTR-91

    If your rifle is failing and it's still under warranty here's what you should do:

    1. Follow the Recommended Cleaning Procedures in the Owners Manual. Make sure to completely clean out the flutes in the chamber, the bore, and the trunnion behind the barrel with high quality bore solvent. PTR 91 Inc. warns on their website that they will charge, "gunsmith time, ammunition cost and returned shipping," if they find the rifle is not functioning due to surplus ammunition.

    2. Then try PTR's recommended ammo, which is, "commercial .308 like Federal 150gr fmj or Remington 150 gr fmj." You should probably try at least 100 rounds to be on the safe side. Record any failures and the exact type of failure and ammo i.e. 25th round, Federal 150gr fmj - failure to extract, 38th round, Remington 150gr fmj - stovepipe. It might be a good idea to take a camera with you to take photos of the failures.

    3. If you have failures with the recommended ammo in a well cleaned rifle, then the problem is obviously the rifle. You should request an RA# (Return Authorization number) from PTR. Write up your request and results in an email or letter and keep a copy so that you have a record of your communication and send it to PTR 91 Inc. at info@ptr91.com or P.O. Box 562, Unionville CT 06085.

    4. Once you get an RA#, put a copy of your letter along with the rifle in a padded case, box it up so you can't tell a rifle is inside, and ship it to PTR with the RA# included on the shipping label or package. Every time I've shipped things, Fedex ground usually has the best rates, especially for larger items. If you open an account at Fedex.com you can print off a shipping label right from your computer and easily track your packages too.

    Send to:
    ATTN: Repair Dept.
    PTR91 Inc
    1451 New Britain Ave
    Farmington, CT. 06032
    RA#

    PTR has more info here: http://ptr91.com/techinfo.html
    So, If I make a half-assed rifle I can just blame the ammo when it doesn't work correctly?
    Seem's like I seen someone else do this also? Hmm, wonder who?
    Looks like I'm done buying factory made weapons. I am sure not going to stick a $1k plus in someone's pocket for a weapon that doesn't work when I have other weapons to choose from. An AR10 would be one.

  3. #3
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    Thumbs down PTR 32 barrel also

    I wonder what the ammo restrictions will be on the PTR 32?
    That is, if it ever makes it to market. The PTR 32 barrel I received from PTR Inc for my 32 prototype was a shallow flute "lemon" that wouldn't cycle a turd. But maybe they forgot to send the toilet paper to make it work properly?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by HART1 View Post
    I am sure not going to stick a $1k plus in someone's pocket for a weapon that doesn't work when I have other weapons to choose from. An AR10 would be one.

    Ehhh... could I suggest a Garand in 308? The new production guns I've seen last month at Camp Perry were truly beautiful... and could shoot!

    And yes, I do get a kick out of that p-ting when the enbloc clip pops out the top.:D:D
    45acp... turning human garbage into useful fertilizer since 1911

    Auf gebeginning to fixin der gun mit grosse busen of der schpritzin lubrication allen over derfukin platz, mit das squirtin and squeezin oil in allen fukinholes.
    Ja, und racken und strokin das bolt as if gecrazygoing, yanken dat handle bak und forth, zwei hunnert times, ja?
    Ist neue, und its needing some brekkin in.
    Zo, BREKKIN ZEFUKIN THING IN!


    Certified MM leghumper...

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    So, customers that already spent over $1000 have to spend about $100 more now on ammo just to see if their gun is built correctly. That makes a lot of sense!

  6. #6
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    So this is for "New PTR Owners"? I guess owners of "Old PTR's got rifles that were built right.
    We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

  7. #7
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    It seems that those of us [me included] who have JLD built PTR 91's where the ser # begins with "A" have no problems. When PTR took over, they changed barrel vendors & that's when the problems started. Those ser #'s start with "AW". "B or BW" are not factory built guns. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. GARY N4KVE

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
    It seems that those of us [me included] who have JLD built PTR 91's where the ser # begins with "A" have no problems. When PTR took over, they changed barrel vendors & that's when the problems started. Those ser #'s start with "AW". "B or BW" are not factory built guns. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. GARY N4KVE
    My serial number begins with "AW" and is an entirely factory built gun, I am pretty sure. Was that the question?

  9. #9
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    My PTR is a AWXXXX serialized weapon. How can you tell the difference between a factory/JLD build and PTR? Assume the serial # ;)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
    It seems that those of us [me included] who have JLD built PTR 91's where the ser # begins with "A" have no problems. When PTR took over, they changed barrel vendors & that's when the problems started. Those ser #'s start with "AW". "B or BW" are not factory built guns. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. GARY N4KVE
    You are correct sir!

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