Are the various Clone issues fixable...??

[BigBaboon]

I am looking at a Clone (a Vector V93), and have read about the various issues that can afflict them...

... the big question is, can these issues be fixed? The bolt gap thing, head space, barrel replacement, misaligned sights, etc...?!?

Or am I just taking a chance that this rifle will be great, out of the box?

I'd imagine that almost any rifle would have some kind of issue... so hopefully the various Clone issues can be addressed, post-purchase...?

[Chopstix Kid]

Yes and no...

I recently had a new clone from a popular custom builder brought to my shop for a third opinion on some major issues. The builder apparently noticed the fault in their maufacturing and rather than go back and properly correct the root-cause issue, the builder attempted work-around fixes for the symptoms which alleviated one issue only to create several more. I deemed the firearm unsafe and it is my understanding that it is being returned to the builder for refund.

So it really depends on what is wrong with the firearm and whether or not the root-cause issue is corrected or if work-around fixes are performed.

[jdonovan]

Or am I just taking a chance that this rifle will be great, out of the box?

I'd imagine that almost any rifle would have some kind of issue... so hopefully the various Clone issues can be addressed, post-purchase...?

For the VAST VAST majority of clones, yes, they are fixable.... and some of them work right out of the box and need nothing but a supply of full mags.

Others need a bit of love, generally thats been a new bolt head, extractor, or extractor spring. A few have needed pack shimming due to shelf height.

And yes, as Chops said, there are a very small few that are not financially viable to fix properly.

[U.S. Praetorian]

You will probably be 80/20 on a vector. If it is an old vector probability, 100%. For the most part these guns are almost always fixable. They are not finely machined precision weapons. One that is deemed unsafe like the one Joe examined, must have been a real POS if he could not fix it. Look it it this way, very fine specimens are made from chopped up parts kits. That is basically redoing the entire piece, albeit individual part quality does play a role. 99% of folks issues with these are fixed by substituting higher grade parts.

[Chopstix Kid]

One that is deemed unsafe like the one Joe examined, must have been a real POS if he could not fix it. Look it it this way, very fine specimens are made from chopped up parts kits. That is basically redoing the entire piece, albeit individual part quality does play a role. 99% of folks issues with these are fixed by substituting higher grade parts.

It was fixable but from my understanding it had already been back once to the builder for repair. It was built from a German parts kit and the owner paid nearly $2700 for the gun and had not even fired it due to his concerns. It is unfortunate that some builders put more empahsis on how quickly they can build and deliver a firearm rather than the quality or more importantly, the safety of the firearm.

[JTinIN]

I am looking at a Clone (a Vector V93), and have read about the various issues that can afflict them...

... the big question is, can these issues be fixed? The bolt gap thing, head space, barrel replacement, misaligned sights, etc...?!?

Or am I just taking a chance that this rifle will be great, out of the box?

I'd imagine that almost any rifle would have some kind of issue... so hopefully the various Clone issues can be addressed, post-purchase...?

Have not had issues with any of the German HK's ;-) Bottom line is decide what you want and what you wish to pay for it, then go from there. If you are worried about it and you budget can tolerate an extra grand (more or less) then also consider getting a full size German HK. As time goes on I find that spending a couple dollars more on one rifle is better than spending half as much and getting two guns, if I get something for the money. Now days with the price difference on the full size 308's being less than a grand and the full size 223s being a little over a grand (if you can live with a 1 in 12 barrel twist) would go with clones mostly for the shorter guns that never were imported, such as the 53 & 33K, or in calibers that did not exist from the factory, such as 7.62x39.

[BigBaboon]

Thanks guys.

Yeah, I'm looking at an older Vector, one that was built at least 5-6 years ago, a V93 on a Malay parts kit. The seller, although I don't know him personally, seems like an upstanding individual who likes quality guns.

However, his Vector has only had a few mags' worth of ammo run through it, and has not been "checked" by any armorer/builder/third party since it was built by Vector. No information available on the bolt gap, head space, etc. The barrel is apparently unmarked, which would suggest it's a 1:12 twist as was normal with the Malay kits, correct?

I have heard that the older the Vector, the better. So that's good.

Any comments are welcome! It's a little tough trying to buy a gun like this from a distance while trying to act with due diligence.

[U.S. Praetorian]

I think you will be GTG and most likely not have any probs. The older Malay guns that Vector made according to them ( I checked because I have one that is a 53 that had a 16 in barrel) have 1:9 CHF barrels. I don't know how to tell if it is indeed CHF but it is mos def 1:9 ROT.

[BigBaboon]

Thank you.

Do you find your Clones to run dirty, comparable to a direct-impingement AR? How many rounds, typically, can you go through before a good cleaning is required? Can you get through an extended range session or tournament before cleaning? I have heard these things run dirty, that's why I ask.

Are the barrels easy to swap out, if it comes to that?

Do any particular parts wear out quite quickly...?

I'm looking to get a Clone that I can shoot, it won't be a safe queen.

[JTinIN]

I probably can run an HK (clone or germany factory) longer than a gas tube based AR/M16, but either tends to go for 300 to 500 rounds with no issues, assuming clean and lubed to start.

Barrels are harder to swap on the HK roller lock guns, have a couple friends that do it with all the fixtures and press ... but mostly would leave it to the professional if you have to ask (fyi one of the two friends is full time smith but just no on modern guns ;-).

You need to have a few extra extractor springs, never leave home with out them ... besides that you can find threads on spare parts.

Good Luck ....