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Thread: Cetme Auto Sear

  1. #1
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    Default Cetme Auto Sear

    I have a cetme and recently ran across an ad for a Cetme auto sear for $10. Why cant this be used to make a FA Cetme? I assume some sort of NFA restriction does anyone know?

    Would it be illegal to own the sear and the gun and have them separate, just have the sear as a collectors piece. I do own a number of guns I have never shot just as collectors pieces and this would be cool to own even if it cant be used.
    Carpe Hoc

  2. #2
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    The factory sear (or catch) is of no use in a semi-auto cetme as there is no hole in the semi trigger pack for the sear to function. You need a FA pack to put the sear in and in that case, the FA pack will not fit on a semi receiver.

    Not illegal to own a factory catch and a semi receiver.

  3. #3
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    I would be very wary of owning any kind of "auto sear" that isnt registered as a transferable one with the ATF. There is nothing but trouble that can come of this... There is no collectors value to it, in my honest opinion you are just asking for trouble with this one... Flame on.
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  4. #4
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    I kind of agree that it can be trouble. The temptation is always there, just sitting waiting. Save your $10 and get something you can use.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkmatt View Post
    I have a cetme and recently ran across an ad for a Cetme auto sear for $10. Why cant this be used to make a FA Cetme? I assume some sort of NFA restriction does anyone know?

    Would it be illegal to own the sear and the gun and have them separate, just have the sear as a collectors piece. I do own a number of guns I have never shot just as collectors pieces and this would be cool to own even if it cant be used.
    Sure, you could own it as a collectors piece as long as you don't also own a trigger pack that has been set up for it to fit into. If you DO own both the sear and a pack that it will fit into, you are subject to fine and imprisonment for possesion of an unregistered machine gun conversion device. And I can promise you, it it's $10, it's not registered. The reason the legal ones cost so much is not because of the price of the part, but because of the scarcity of the piece of paper that makes them legal.

    But you can get them from robertrtg.com for half that price. Go to the G3 page, they're actually called a 'catch'. Robertrtg has friction catches for $5.
    Last edited by AviatorDave; 04-09-2008 at 06:33 PM.


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  6. #6
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    Aren't we speaking of a factory catch? Since a semi pack has to be modified to use any sort of catch AND a FA pack has to be modified to fit on semi receiver, doesn't seem a person could be prosecuted for even constructive possession. Or is it not legal even for a person to own both a semi receiver AND an unmodified pack?

  7. #7
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    Default There is no clear answer to this question

    First, I am assuming that you are talking about the auto sear/catch that serves to trip the sear when the bolt of a full-auto gun closes. Assuming this to be the case, I agree that in the abstract simply possessing this auto sear and possessing a semi rifle would not amount to possession of a "machinegun."

    However, it must be noted that the lines here are not that clear. Federal law defines a machinegun as (inter alia) parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. What prevents ATF from coming in and saying, "well you *could* have assembled a machinegun from your CETME and your auto sear." If ATF does this it will cost you a lot of money and grief -- even if you ultimately do convince the jury that you didn't have parts from which a machinegun could be assembled. (Even if you "win" you still had to get arrested, hire a lawyer, go to trial, and lose sleep for 6 months.)

    My own theory is, if there is no good reason for you to own FA parts - why own them? Why take any unnecessary risk?
    "The Congress shall have Power...To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia."

  8. #8
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    Yeah that $10 dollar piece could end up being worth 10yrs and $10K. Add 90 bucks to it and go buy an Airsoft from Academy. It'll take a little of the FA bug out of you and is great fun with the neighbor's cat!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by themessenger View Post
    Aren't we speaking of a factory catch? Since a semi pack has to be modified to use any sort of catch AND a FA pack has to be modified to fit on semi receiver, doesn't seem a person could be prosecuted for even constructive possession. Or is it not legal even for a person to own both a semi receiver AND an unmodified pack?
    Yes, that is why I wrote "the sear and a pack that it will fit into". A factory catch will not fit into a semi-auto pack. And a factory full-auto pack that the factory catch WILL fit into will NOT fit a semi-auto receiver without other modifications.

    This is why robertrtg.com can sell the factory catches for $4 and not go to prison.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKEsq View Post

    However, it must be noted that the lines here are not that clear. Federal law defines a machinegun as (inter alia) parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. What prevents ATF from coming in and saying, "well you *could* have assembled a machinegun from your CETME and your auto sear."

    My own theory is, if there is no good reason for you to own FA parts - why own them? Why take any unnecessary risk?
    Because it's not an unnecessary risk. It's not a risk at all. What prevents the ATF from saying you *could* have assembled a machine gun is the fact that you *can't* "assemble" one into a machine gun.

    It requires a few more more very deliberate machining steps before it will work.

    Extending your argument just a bit more, what's to stop the ATF from claiming that since you own a hammer, a file, a piece of sheet metal, and a roller-locked HK variant rifle, you intended to create an illegal unregistered sear? That's right, nothing would. So why isn't that an issue?

    Basically, if the parts can be assembled and used in full-auto, its constructive intent. If it requires drilling, welding, or milling before they would fit together, it's not. See the difference?

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