seeking advice on 9mm purchase

[evandc1]

I had a P2000. It wasnt as accurate as my P30 and has less capacity. Not much difference in size between the two. I liked the P2000. Love the P30. If you could try them both back to back, it would help you make an informed decision. I wouldnt carry a P7. Why not have 16 rds at your disposal?

I guess its a big question for me -- and one of the primary reasons I started this advice thread -- to figure out which is more valuable between the firepower/higher capacity of the p30 or p2000 and the incredibly sweet shooting characteristics of the p7. I have not fired a p2000 or p30 but its hard for me to imagine that any handgun would be quicker to acquire target, hit target and hit followup shots than the p7. you just run out of ammo more quickly. Which is more important?

[Caliber.666]

I live in Texas and I believe that in your own home/property, your car, and going in between these places you do not need a CCL. If somebody has info to the contrary let me know.

You don't.
I've got my CHL here in Texas.
It's under the same laws as the castle doctrine.
-Wes

[jeray]

P7.

It gets hot at the range.
Take another gun to shoot when it's hot.

Low capacity.
8+1 is plenty enough for self-defense. Lots of 5-shot .38s out there.

"Euro" Heel Mag Release.
Practice. Mag changes will be quite fast when you get them down. Also, the heel release is ridiculously secure, and it doesn't create anything to snag on.

Mags are expensive.
It's an HK, get used to it. 2 mags is all you need to start out with, just rotate the ammo. When money comes pick up a couple more.

P7. It's the perfect carry pistol. 9mm, manageable recoil, quick to follow-up shots, great trigger, very easy to conceal, all steel (with weight suitable for pistol-whipping) and crazy accurate even compared to most full size handguns.

[Caliber.666]

Which is more important?

You getting out there and shooting them would be the MOST important.
Dude, you could play this game all day...
It sounds to me you need to get a fun filled hands on day at the range.:)
-Wes

[Blackcat]

Another +1 on the P7 recommendation for all of the reasons already stated. If it's going to a CC weapon, all the more reason to go with a "heel release" Grade A/B/C trade in vs. P7M8. (1/3rd of the price of a NIB P7M8 and you won't cry when it gets holster marks and other dings from wear).

I own two grade A P7's (german trade ins, purchased from CDNN) and two USPc .45's.... both models have seen CC duty & I'd trust my life to either. I much prefer the P7 over the USPc for CC (granted the USPc is .45, not a 9) due to the 'extra' safety when a round is chambered, simpler safety (no worrying about safety levers when drawing), along with the smaller footprint. As far as capacity, I'm not sure 8+1 is that much worse than having 16 rounds. On paper, sure. However, if you're in a situation that calls for more than 9 shots, it's probably not going to end well regardless.

[Omega Man]

Another +1 on the P7 recommendation for all of the reasons already stated. If it's going to a CC weapon, all the more reason to go with a "heel release" Grade A/B/C trade in vs. P7M8. (1/3rd of the price of a NIB P7M8 and you won't cry when it gets holster marks and other dings from wear).

I own two grade A P7's (german trade ins, purchased from CDNN) and two USPc .45's.... both models have seen CC duty & I'd trust my life to either. I much prefer the P7 over the USPc for CC (granted the USPc is .45, not a 9) due to the 'extra' safety when a round is chambered, simpler safety (no worrying about safety levers when drawing), along with the smaller footprint. As far as capacity, I'm not sure 8+1 is that much worse than having 16 rounds. On paper, sure. However, if you're in a situation that calls for more than 9 shots, it's probably not going to end well regardless.

The extra rds in a P30 could mean you survive against multiple attackers. Those extra rds could save your life. In this kind of event, your adrenaline is through the roof and you will not be getting the neat little groups that you achieve at the range. There will be lots of misses. Cops have a 70 to 80% miss ratio in actual shootings. Especially when shooting on the move.(To avoid getting shot, real important) Its not like in the movies when Clint Eastwood is cooley taking out bad guys with 1 shot at a time. I also like the extra time before i would need to do a tactical reload. Ill take 16 over 8.

[ETCP]

The extra rds in a P30 could mean you survive against multiple attackers. Those extra rds could save your life. In this kind of event, your adrenaline is through the roof and you will not be getting the neat little groups that you achieve at the range. There will be lots of misses. Cops have a 70 to 80% miss ratio in actual shootings. Especially when shooting on the move.(To avoid getting shot, real important) Its not like in the movies when Clint Eastwood is cooley taking out bad guys with 1 shot at a time. I also like the extra time before i would need to do a tactical reload. Ill take 16 over 8.

+1, buy a P30 or a P2000, I know the P30L is damn accurate (had one) and with 15 in the mag you cant go wrong, I dont buy handguns under cap of 10 rounds for defense !

[ETCP]

You've indicated that this will be your first handgun. This most likely means that the first order of things for you will be to become proficient with it. At this stage I would almost disregard such aspects as "tactical" advantages, mag capacity etc. Instead, I would concentrate on how your handgun choice would affect attainment of your desired proficiency level, how high is your motivation, how low is your tolerance for early poor results etc.

The most important and difficult part of marksmanship is trigger control. Selecting P7 family of pistols will make your life easier from a get-go. It will also mask a number of potential fundamental issues with trigger control. This masking is a well-known phenomenon. It is quite prevalent with 1911 shooters who are often known to state that they "shoot 1911 better than anything else". Very commonly the reality is that they've never learned fundamentals of trigger control. P7 can do the same to you. Ask me how I know...Now, before I get flamed, the above statement is not a generalization. I am priviliged to know people who can shoot anything, Hi-Point and Lorcin included, better than I can my custom 1911. Nonetheless, I've also known many shooters who are holding onto their sweet-triggered pistols as onto a crutch, and that's exactly what it is - a crutch for poor fundamentals.

So, my take on this: if you want to become a truly proficient shooter in a long run, and have time and resources for training and practice, and you don't mind poor results early on - don't get P7. Now, I am not suggesting a 10 lbs. gritty DAO pistol; just get something reasonably shootable, yet not too forgiving, with good ergonomics and head on to the range.

Aghh, yes P30 is a great start, and they wont be dissapointed.

[evandc1]

You've indicated that this will be your first handgun. This most likely means that the first order of things for you will be to become proficient with it. At this stage I would almost disregard such aspects as "tactical" advantages, mag capacity etc. Instead, I would concentrate on how your handgun choice would affect attainment of your desired proficiency level, how high is your motivation, how low is your tolerance for early poor results etc.

The most important and difficult part of marksmanship is trigger control. Selecting P7 family of pistols will make your life easier from a get-go. It will also mask a number of potential fundamental issues with trigger control. This masking is a well-known phenomenon. It is quite prevalent with 1911 shooters who are often known to state that they "shoot 1911 better than anything else". Very commonly the reality is that they've never learned fundamentals of trigger control. P7 can do the same to you. Ask me how I know...Now, before I get flamed, the above statement is not a generalization. I am priviliged to know people who can shoot anything, Hi-Point and Lorcin included, better than I can my custom 1911. Nonetheless, I've also known many shooters who are holding onto their sweet-triggered pistols as onto a crutch, and that's exactly what it is - a crutch for poor fundamentals.

So, my take on this: if you want to become a truly proficient shooter in a long run, and have time and resources for training and practice, and you don't mind poor results early on - don't get P7. Now, I am not suggesting a 10 lbs. gritty DAO pistol; just get something reasonably shootable, yet not too forgiving, with good ergonomics and head on to the range.

That is fantastic insightful advice. Thank you. I had a nagging feeling the P7 might not be the right gun for me to start with. Would you say the P30 or P2000 fits the bill?

[Mark71]

That is fantastic insightful advice. Thank you. I had a nagging feeling the P7 might not be the right gun for me to start with. Would you say the P30 or P2000 fits the bill?

That was a good post by YVK.

If you have the option I would recommend finding a local range that rents handguns so you can try various makes and models to see what fits you best. There are many handguns out there besides HK's and most are much better buys especially for the $ such as the 9mm Glocks and S&W M&P.

If it was me I would pick up a Glock 17 or 19 (whichever fits you better) and with the $ saved over the HK you can attend a training class, pick up a case of ammo, extra mags, holster, ect.