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A chat with an HK Armorer - MUST READ

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115K views 152 replies 113 participants last post by  Condition0  
#1 · (Edited)
So recently some of you have followed my USP45 FTF thread. While my pistol is back to functioning flawlessly I wanted to create a separate thread about the conversation I had with the man who worked on my firearm.

Side note-
This man works at HK everyday so what he says counts. This is not some hearsay or something I heard from someone somewhere... Enjoy!

So after talking with him about why my handgun was experiencing FTF's (mag spring) I asked him "Which of the HK handguns do you see in for issues or repairs the least?"

His response: "The USP45 is a gun that we pretty rarely see, we very seldom have one come in. The HK45 is rare too... Most of the 45 caliber guns will power through any operator error such as limpwristing. The .40's power through most of it as well. The guns we see in here probably the most are the USP9's and P30L's in 9mm... Those guns with 115gr ammo are pretty unforgiving when it comes to limpwristing. The heavier loads 124 and 147 forgive a little more. If you're new to polymer and you want to completely eliminate limpwristing then buy one of those. It will teach a new shooter to lock their wrist right away. Mechanically all of our guns are sound. Usually if something breaks its due to a botched trigger job or someone trying to replace something their selves. We have special tools from HK to replace any part. We know instantly when someone tried to take needle nose pliers and do something themselves. They leave tiny scratches in areas we know where to look. Other than that just properly maintain your firearm and change the springs when recommended. The springs are the only thing that really wear out over time and we replace them all for $2-$5 per spring."

Now for the best thing he ever could have told me

"If you wanna hear something about how tough these guns are. We had a USP45 come in a few months ago. It was sent to us by Federal Ammunition Company. They wanted us to replace anything needed and evaluate the weapon. To be honest all of the parts on the gun looked original except we could tell they had put newer recoil springs in it. The gun was date coded in the 90's and looked like it had been shot A LOT. So me and the other guys got curious an gave Federal a call asking what the round count was... We gave the lady the serial # and a few keyboard strokes later she says

Are you guys sitting down?

297,000+

Then he says "yeah I can't remember the last 3 digits but I'll never forget the first three"

So I thanked him very much for his time and went on my way.

If any of you are thinking about a USP45 then look no further at the story just told. That kind of round count is something that most of us COMBINED will never ever reach. And HK reports a 20,000 service life haha...

Guys, if we wanted to shoot that much it would cost us ~$90,000 in ammo.

I've never been happier to own such a wonderful piece of engineering. Enjoy your HKs guys. These things will outlive us easily.
 
#3 ·
What an awesome post. Thanks for sharing!

I hope to have an HK USP .45 within the next 6 months. I already have the gun and ammo paddle holsters, 6 new HK magazines, and a few hundred rounds of .45 ACP ammo ready. Now I just need the gun. :)
 
#5 ·
I second that, F***ING awesome! Thank you for sharing your conversation it's nice to get some honest truth from the hands on guys that are working in the trenches. So glad I'm on NavyMan's list for a group buy for the H&K 45C. I own a P30 and it has been running like a champ. Your post confirms I made the right choice when I decided to buy into the H&K Yacht Club as my son would put it. Top of the food chain.
 
#6 ·
My teenage son has, already, bought in. He beat me out of my tactical the same night I traded for it and has since "acquired" my wife's 9mm Combat Competition. She wants a P30L V1, if only there were such a thing.
 
#8 ·
Wow 297K+ is very impressive indeed! Makes Ripper20 with his 160K+ on the USP .45 Tactical seem like chump change in the round count arena. Really those super high round counts dont shock me, with the Recoil Reduction System and low pressures the .45ACP runs at, there is not much force being imparted to the major pistol components ... thus the thing acheives high round counts without really working very hard. I know my full size USP .45's are my favs and I can never come close to wearing them out. I honestly feel the full size USP .45 to be the King of ALL .45 auto pistols ... period. Long Live the Mighty USP .45! *H&K engineers discovered this innovative Recoil Reduction unit reduces the peak force acting on the USP grip to less than 300 Newtons (66 pounds). Peak force shock on competing .40 caliber polymer and metal framed pistols climbed to more than 5000 Newtons (1102 pounds)* Similar reductions apply to the full size USP.45 as well.
 
#14 ·
Glad I got the HK45. Let's see, I got it less than a month ago and I already have 1100 rounds through it. Give me a few weeks and I should be able to match that USP!!!! :wink:
 
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#16 ·
That is a very high round count, and it is impressive. It shows what these pistols are capable of.

Polymer frames seem to be capable of going to pretty high numbers without fracturing, but I think that the way they are shot and maintained has a major influence of how long it will last. I'd be interested in how those rounds were put through the pistol. Rate of fire, +P or +P+ etc. I'm also interested if they followed the 25k round count interval for the recoil spring replacement.

The most impressive durability test I've heard of was a Glock 17 that went to 348,210 rounds before the barrel cracked. Check this out:

Classic Handguns of the 20th Century - David W. Arnold - Google Books

At a recent IWA show, the company had a pistol on display that had run an amazing 348,210 rounds. This specific pistol had been used by Hirtengerger for function and durability tests of their 9mm ammunition and the only parts replaced throughout their testing was a recoil spring assembly and a firing pin spring. After the 348,210 rounds had been fired, an inspection revealed a crack in the barrel and it was replaced. But it is well to note that 65% of the rounds fired were stress level proof rounds, and another five percent of this total round count was high-pressure military combat ammunition.
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Image
 
#28 ·
balance said:
That is a very high round count, and it is impressive. It shows what these pistols are capable of.

Polymer frames seem to be capable of going to pretty high numbers without fracturing, but I think that the way they are shot and maintained has a major influence of how long it will last. I'd be interested in how those rounds were put through the pistol. Rate of fire, +P or +P+ etc. I'm also interested if they followed the 25k round count interval for the recoil spring replacement.

The most impressive durability test I've heard of was a Glock 17 that went to 348,210 rounds before the barrel cracked. Check this out:

Classic Handguns of the 20th Century - David W. Arnold - Google Books



Image
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Yet Todd Green has a G17 with 72,000 rounds and is no longer serviceable due to flame cut on the breech face.
 
#26 ·
Wicked post, man!!! Thanks for sharing that with us...I know that the "extra" USP45 that I have and was thinking of selling has now become a definite keeper. I'll just find some thing else in the safe to get rid of...possibly making room for another 45cal HK of some sort!
 
#27 · (Edited)
"The guns we see in here probably the most are the USP9's and P30L's in 9mm... Those guns with 115gr ammo are pretty unforgiving when it comes to limpwristing. The heavier loads 124 and 147 forgive a little more. If you're new to polymer and you want to completely eliminate limpwristing then buy one of those."

This is why I only shoot +P or +P+ 9MM in my full size USP. These pistols are designed for the stout NATO ammo. Weaker ammo is an invitation to reliability problems.

And by the way, I DO LIMPWRIST all my pistols as part of a reliability test. (weak hand, unsupported, loosely held, angled 90 degrees counter-clockwise) If the pistol functions without failure when gripped like this, it is street worthy. Nobody that I can imagine would remember to "lock their wrists" under high stress defensive conditions. (OK, well, at least I would not...)
 
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#30 ·
Yet Todd Green has a G17 with 72,000 rounds and is no longer serviceable due to flame cut on the breech face.
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It is strange how different pistols of the same make/model/caliber seem to do better or worse in durability and reliability tests. When any one of these tests are done, I always look to get as much information as I can about what the pistol was put through.

If they never fired more than one mag at a time before cleaning or lubing, then I'd assume that it would last longer than one that had been used hard. I doubt they put as much stress on that pistol or got it as hot as it would have gotten if Todd Green had used it in his test. IMO, I don't think that same Glock would have lasted as long if it was in Todd Green's test, as even pistols with reputations for durability and reliability seem to fail prematurely when he puts them through what he puts them through.

Though, the fact that it got over 230,000 proof loads through it (which I have to say would have been amazing even if they stopped there), has to say something as to what the design is capable of. I'd say the same about the USP in the first post. Any pistol that lasts that long deserves credit.
 
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