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Thread: Xavier thoughts on HK vs. 1911

  1. #1
    Gets the Shakes if No HK Contact in 24 Hour Period

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    Default Xavier thoughts on HK vs. 1911

    If you don't read this blog you are missing out. This article is on HK vs. 1911, specifically the USP. I prefer the Hk 45 myself to a 1911 despite my long history with 1911's.

  2. #2


    interesting article

  3. #3
    Gets the Shakes if No HK Contact in 24 Hour Period

    Join Date : Jun 2001
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    That article has some good points. I didn't see much new except one thing. I really liked the part about how the 1911 is actually a pattern of pistol. You get total POS $300 guns and $6000 custom tuned works of art. I also liked how he compared a USP to a SIMILARLY PRICED 1911. He wasn't going to compare it to some $3900 Wilson Supergrade or $2000 Ed Brown and say that the 1911s run circles around the USP all day long. While a clock radio is a bit extreme, the USP is a blocky gun without a doubt. For the guy who wrote the article, I'd say he probably should stick to his 1911. It's a good gun.

    However, there are plenty of people on this board and elsewhere who find the USP trigger manageable and can shoot the USP very accurately, quickly, and competantly. There are also lots of people on here who can conceal the gun adequately. Therefore, for that guy to discount the USP as being inferior to the 1911 for self-defense only applies to himself. There are certainly people better served by the USP.

  4. #4
    Really liking this HK Stuff Member
    Chui's Avatar
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    Yes, there is a HUGE difference between "manageable" and "superb". I think that was the point.

    One cannot compare "equally priced" models as the cost of manufacture of any and all polymer guns is MUCH less than an all steel pistol.

    For me: a Springfield TRP would be the proper comparator to an HK45. For me the 1904-developed piece wins every time. However, that does not dissuade me from owning & shooting an HK pistol.

    It's all good. The 1911 is simply a better shooter and being all steel is much more durable, albeit with a much more intense maintenance schedule.

  5. #5
    Junior Member

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    As much as I love a good, quality 1911, I've read way too many reports by shooting school instructors who see them fail at a much higher rate than HK's, SIG's, etc, during their classes. Yes, some are low quality POS's, but many aren't. Thus I tend to favor the more modern guns for ccw work.

    To each his own though.

  6. #6
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    He's entitled to his opinion, but that's all it is.

  7. #7
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    Greg Bell's Avatar
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    Of course, the 1911 CAN have a better trigger than any USP. That doesn't mean it does out of the box. A lot of box-stock 1911s (let's say guns that are in the 6-800 range like the USP ) have fairly heavy triggers compared to the standard single action trigger on the USP. Of course, with a little attention from a gunsmith a 1911 can have a wonderful trigger.

    Also, this article is very personal to Xavier. He says he can't shoot the USP well. That is a fact, and nothing can be done about that. He says it doesn't shoot where he points it. Facts are stubborn things, as a President once said. That said, if he can't shoot a USP accurately, that should give you a clue as to how much weight to give to his opinion. He needs to work on his fundamentals.

    Triggers aren't everything. A 1911 will not be a durable or reliable as a USP or HK45 over time. Sorry, ain't going to happen. I have owned everything from $500 Springfield Mil-specs to $4000 Novak's custom Colt's and they just aren't going to hold a candle to the USP line in terms of trustworthiness. That is no slap to the colt. It is a century old design and I am sure it fares better than the USP will to whatever is out in 2096.

    I have carried them all. In my experience a full size 1911 does not conceal as easily as a USP 45 compact (The USP holds 9 rounds, the 1911 8-9 rounds). The butt of the 1911 is always a hassle, and the gun is too heavy. Now, an officers model is another matter entirely (and much less likely to actually work). The USP compact is wider, but is lighter, and, carried in something like a comp-tac c-tac is very comfortable.
    Last edited by Greg Bell; 05-03-2008 at 04:00 PM.
    Boy, if you try and pee out a forrest fire all you are going to get is a burnt pecker.

  8. #8
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    Don't interpret my comments above as being anti-1911. I adore 1911s. Right now my latest Colt XSE is at Novak's getting a full custom package.

    But after reading Xavier's article again, I realize I shouldn't have wasted my time. He simply dismisses those who disagree with him as "Kool-Aid" drinkers and "flavor of the month" guys. It is a blog post less about USP vs. 1911 and more about "hey, I like my 1911."
    Last edited by Greg Bell; 05-03-2008 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #9
    lex ferenda (Moderator)
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    Greg, what are your thoughts on the trigger of the HK45 versus the P2000? Would you still recommend the P2000 to someone who owns an HK45? Do you own Sigs you could compare it to?

    Unfortunately, the P30 isn't an option thanks to the idiots in Sacramento. Luckily I picked up my HK45 before moving to CA. I'd have picked up both if it wasn't for the magazine capacity restrictions.
    HK45; P7M8 - AH.

    Nothing in this post should be construed as legal advice, nor does this post constitute an attorney-client relationship.

  10. #10
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    My personal P2000 is an LEM. It is a different beast than the DA/SA of the HK45, but entirely manageable (like a Glock with a NY trigger).

    I did own a P2000Sk with da/sa very briefly. The trigger on it was excellent--lighter than the trigger on my full size USP 9mm (which is a very old model) or my SIG 220.

    SIG triggers are more variable than HK triggers, in my experience. I owned a SIG 220 ST that had the best DA/SA trigger I have ever felt. I owned a WGerman 220 that had a gritty, heavy SA and DA. SIG 239s always have great triggers, IIRC. My 226 was somewhere in between. I had a few SIG 229s that had AWESOME triggers that got much better with use. I like SIGs.

    Honestly, I think 1911 people worry too much about triggers. If you can handle a Beretta 92fs with a gritty trigger than you will be a virtuoso with a 1911. I bring up that example because I rented a Beretta at my local range a few weeks back and the owner basically said the gun could not be shot well. I shot it well. The owner is a much better competitive shooter than I am (in other words, he is faster) but he can't shoot that well with anything but a Glock. People who only shoot 1911s often complain about the poor shotability of other guns, but it is really that they don't have their fundamentals down (or at least have forgotten them after using the 1911's trigger as a crutch for too long).

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