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Thread: Help Re: legality of USC/UMP conversion

  1. #1
    Senior Member

    Join Date : May 2003
    Location : Michigan
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    Default Help Re: legality of USC/UMP conversion

    OK
    Here in Michigan due to the length we have to register it as a pistol.
    (yes, stupid I know.. and yes its ever more absurd we have to register our pistols with the PD for a "safety inspection"...

    ANYWAY

    I took in my USC/UMP conversion which has the navy lower with the selector switch which works as semi auto in all positions...

    Anyway the office calls in their armorer they talk and then after this goes on for about 45 min. they tell me they are going to have to check my gun into property as its a against the law (fed. law) to have any Full Auto parts and they suspect the selector switch itself is from a full auto kit which he says is illegal... I say Shennanagins! (not to his face of course) but either way thats baloney! These are sold all over the web and in stores everywhere...

    Does anyone know where I can show him these are legal?
    They are talking about taking and destroying mine...
    OK I have problems I have too many HKs to fit in my signature. I need to join HKAA! HK Addicts Anon.

  2. #2
    Gets the Shakes if No HK Contact in 24 Hour Period
    dtibbals's Avatar
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    ITs a stock USC that was converted by who? I would be calling two people asap. First would be my attorney, call your state NRA or the NRA directly and second would be the ATF.

  3. #3
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    The_Crow's Avatar
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    Direct them to this info.

    http://www.top-notchparts.com/atf_nfa_letters.htm

    Hope this helps! Damn some police are so ignorant and just chomping at the bit to exude their feeling of superiority over us mere mortals.

    It seems there are only two types of cops. Those with morals and brains that serve their community well and deserve respect, and those that feel they are above the rest of us and assume everyone they meet is a criminal and will be treated as such at all costs. I hope good sense and education will prevail and you get your weapon back!

  4. #4
    Very Senior Member
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    If it was converted by one of the companies who do conversions (TE, TN, HDPS, etc.), I can't picture them returning your weapon to you in an illegal configuration. Also, are SBR's legal in MI? If it's a registered SBR, I don't see how the police's authority could overrule ATF's approval of that weapon.
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  5. #5
    Max
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    I think this is the second time I have heard almost the same Michigan story in the past few months. I can't recall for sure, but I think kdogg had something similar happen to him. You might check with him; sorry if I got the wrong guy but I searched the forum and couldn't find the link.

  6. #6
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    SBRs are not allowed in MI. MGs are ok but not SBRs. Guess whose bright idea is that?
    What the hell?

  7. #7
    H&K Certified Armorer
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    Location : Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpmanUSC View Post
    SBRs are not allowed in MI. MGs are ok but not SBRs. Guess whose bright idea is that?
    This is correct, SBR's are prohibited in Michigan. Further, it is legal to own an F/A firearm as long as the receiver was registered as F/A prior to 1986 (don't quote me on the year but it's in that area). It is prohibited to convert ANY semi-auto weapon into full-auto regardless of date of manufacture.

    As for your issue with the USC. As with the SL8, the receiver is designed in such a manner as not to accept full-auto parts. As long as those "features" are not modified to accept F/A parts, the receiver itself is legal. Your issue with the trigger is completely different. On a UMP lower (used in a USC) to avoid any legal issue (as you did) most will fill the forward area of the housing with polymer so that the F/A "trip" assembly can not be installed.

    See http://www.hdps.org/htm/5-3-1.htm about 1/2 way down the page.

    When I purchased my G36 S-E-2-F pistol grip for my conversion, the "trip" lever and the "slide" were already removed hence only allowing semi-auto operation in any position. I was fairly concerned about the legality of this so just to be safe, I put my SL8 internals into the grip hence only allowing 2-position movement (Safe - Semi).

    I think had you had an FBI lower (2-position) or put your USC internals in there allowing only 2-position movement, I don't think you would have run into an issue.

    On a side note... when I registered my SIG 229 .40, during the safety inspection the officer asked me to operate the safety. I said "SIG's don't have safetys." He looked at me with an astonished and bewildered look as if I were lying. He really was unaware that SIG's have no safety. I then looked down and noticed that he carried the same gun... WOW!

    I would grab the pics from the TN site noted in the earlier post and go down and show them the receiver modification that is required to make the gun F/A. They could argue the fact that you have an F/A trigger group (even if the "trip" is missing since it can be easily put back in). If you're lower has been "filled" there is no way in hell they can conceive that as an F/A trigger group since a "filled" one can't be converted back without modification (remember the post-ban AR's with the "plug" in front of the hammer?). And yes, DEFINTELY write to the NRA. If they detroy your gun and it can be proven that it was a bogus seizure... lawsuit = payday!

  8. #8
    Senior Member

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    Location : Michigan
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    Well I am going to get back on this today...
    It is not a SBR in MI it is a pistol (yes we have weird laws)

    Anyone else with suggestions please let me know...

  9. #9
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    You will need an attorney that specializes in firearms issues to help with this. Really. Cops, unfortunately, vary greatly in their knowledge of applicable statute. Their job is to begin the legal process as a result of their best beliefs that a crime has been committed... and then let "the system" sort it out.

    Throwing a bunch of papers in their faces, showing them a bunch of internet pix, and getting other agencies involved is only going to make matters worse.

    Get a lawyer now... Unless you don't want your gun back.
    Last edited by straightgrain; 12-13-2007 at 02:15 PM. Reason: I no spell sew gud
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  10. #10
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    this is worth reading and maybe contacting Kdogg
    http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.ph...highlight=desk

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