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Interested in experience with TI-RANT 45 on a 9mm, and Remington R9MM8 Ammo..

9K views 47 replies 13 participants last post by  lineback911 
#1 ·
I have a TI-RANT 45 for my HK45CT and am considering buying a piston to use it with barrels for my P2000SK and P30. Anyone out there that can share experience using this particular 45 can setup with 9mm before I make the investment? Also, anyone have experience using Remington R9MM8 subsonic ammo with the aforementioned kit?- I can only find it at Able...

Thanks-

B.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thanks, I understand the premise but I was hoping for real data here- maybe some decibel level info I could expect lose with the use of that type ammo. Someone here must have that experience. They sell the pistons for that purpose- I was hoping I wasn't the first person to try it.
 
#6 ·
Thanks, I understand the premise but I was hoping for real data here- maybe some decibel level info I could expect with the use of that brand ammo. Someone here must have that experience. I was hoping I was not the first person to invest in the conversion.
 
#7 ·
Asking for exact dB numbers is pretty silly. There is no way that anyone's specific shooting experience will be duplicated by yours. Different temps, altitude, shooting conditions, etc. It might perform *adequately* for you, but will be less than satisfactory. It's my opinion. Unfortunately, the only way that you will be able to decide if you like it or not is for you to try it.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Straightgrain, with all due respect, I recognize there are people on this forum that may indeed have the funding and equipment, as well as vast military and civilian experience necessary to either have conducted the testing personally, or have technical reference available to share, and therefore my inquiry is not "silly". If AAC has gone into production of these type of conversion pistons, and those pistons sell out as fast as they are made, it must be a popular, albeit, ineffective method of further utilizing my sidearm investments. Qualifying what the result would be, is therefore and again, not "silly". I respectfully would appreciate subjective comments be left out of this thread, and frankly, am surprised they are being made by a moderator.

Thanks-

B.
 
#9 ·
You are the one who is not being objective. I can have the most expensive testing equipment in the world. It can be calibrated and certified by NIST. I can use the most rigorous testing protocols ever devised and come up with a very specific number. A number along the lines of what you have asked about. I can state with absolute certainty that in my testing, the rig that you describe comes up with a 28.6 dB reduction.

What does that number tell you? Not much. Why? Because it is highly unlikely that you will be able to reproduce that number (because of many of the variables that I listed). If the can performs worse than the number I listed, then the test must have been "rigged"... and if it performs better, then I didn't know what I was doing. Since the numbers are not easily and readily reproduced, they are not reliable. Further, the whole concept of sound perception IS SUBJECTIVE. What seems loud to one person may be more quiet than a rat fart to another. It has also been repeatedly demonstrated that there are a huge number of folks who perceive the "loudness" of titanium cans to be significantly higher than aluminum or steel, even when the tested dB reduction is within 1% for both cans.

So, to get back to your scenario, you want to use a titanium can designed for a .45 on several different 9mm platforms. You are asking for "objective" data to make a decision that is ultimately only decided by "subjective" metrics. It doesn't matter if the can was measured to be "quiet" in terms of dB or if I or anyone else thinks it's quiet. The only thing that matters is DO YOU THINK IT IS QUIET? Does that make things a bit more clear?
 
#10 ·
Hey-

I seemed to have triggered some kind of argumentative BS with my simple inquiry. I get your point. I don't want my post to degrade into a discussion on testing methods UNLESS, you can furnish graphs that include plots corresponding to data points of altitude, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, ammo type, and apparently, your mood. It's a simple question to tangible, expensive product use, not a discussion about what kind of spray paint to use on a fricking clone. Let someone else respond.

WTF?
 
#25 ·
Hey-

I seemed to have triggered some kind of argumentative BS with my simple inquiry. I get your point. I don't want my post to degrade into a discussion on testing methods UNLESS, you can furnish graphs that include plots corresponding to data points of altitude, humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, ammo type, and apparently, your mood. It's a simple question to tangible, expensive product use, not a discussion about what kind of spray paint to use on a fricking clone. Let someone else respond.

WTF?
Translation: I don't have enough people on my ass. Someone please get retrodog to chew on it for a while.

Uh, not interested. You're on your own on this one.

:biggrin:
 
#11 ·
WTF, indeed. You would prefer to base your decision on some number or data point, or somebody else's "experience," that may or may not approximate performance in your hand, as opposed to actually trying it?

This has nothing to do with BS, as you have labeled it, or even my "mood." I have offered you reasoned responses to justify my *opinion* as to why I don't think that you will be happy with the rig. You are obviously looking for something other than the experience you originally asked for and you seem to have a problem with me. If you would rather base your purchase decision on a metric or perception that may or may not be able to be duplicated, then by all means... carry on. If, OTOH, you want a metric that means something... Try it out!
 
#12 ·
You may have more luck asking or over at Silencertalk.com as more people experiment with using cans not designed for the proper caliber and talk about it over there.
Or call AAC as they have probably done some testing with the setup you are asking about since they say it is possible to use the .45 can on a smaller caliber if desired.
AAC posts on silencertalk all the time and answers questions like yours.

Straightgrain is correct though, it won't be as quiet as it should be since the bore is much larger than the projectile.
Just like using a .30 cal suppressor on a .223, it works, but not as good as it should.
 
#13 ·
can't speak to the tirant specifically but if you've already got the can for a .45 host why not get the piston adapter for 9mm? is it optimum, no; is it quieter than without, yes. probably less effective for the tirant s models. in some cases the .45 cans have more volume and that may help offset the caliber mismatch. the osprey 45 usually is on a uspt, uspct, or sig p220, but i've also shot it on a uspsd and sig P6 and it's comparable in reduction to the trinity/talon. also shot the .45 can for an uzi and I can't tell a difference when shooting 9mm or .22 with other uzi's with dedicated 9mm or .22 cans.
 
#14 ·
Mark5- thanks for the comments. You seem to understand what I'm after- trying to get more use out of what I've invested in. The piston is $75-$85, a threaded 9mm barrel is $350. All told, half of another can, and no wait. If I decided to get another can, I'd still need the barrel, so I'm only out the cost of the piston.

I am still hoping someone had decibel data knowledge of some expectation on shooting off caliber through a can might produce- some kind of reference, but your comments were valuable.
 
#15 ·
I am still hoping someone had decibel data knowledge of some expectation on shooting off caliber through a can might produce- some kind of reference, but your comments were valuable.
SG gave you that... 28.5 dB
Compare that to the caliber it was designed for, ... about 35 db

So on the non-intended host look for it to be ROUGHLY twice as loud.

Also with -28.5 you are getting close, depending on the firearm/ammo combination to exiting the hearing safe range.
 
#19 ·
My number was used as an example. @Brahma, sorry that you don't like the answers you are getting. At the risk of offending your sensibilities, I'll ask you a question:

Which would you prefer... A can with a measured 24.623 dB sound reduction when used with your gun and ammo preference that sounds like cr@p OR a can with a measured 20.062 dB sound reduction that sounds fiendishly quiet to you?

If you want the better number/poorer performance combo, then by all means, that is your absolute choice. In my world, performance means a bit more than a number on a piece of paper. I have plenty of designs that should outperform a lot of the stuff that is in current production. But they don't. Now, if you'd like to leave here, feel free to do so. You are not being pushed, forced or even cajoled into such action. At the very least, all that has been done "to" you is to point out that your preferred metric is built on a faulty premise.

Call up the can manufacturer and find out where one of those cans with one of those adapters is located near you and ask to have it demo'd with your ammo choice. If you like it, buy it.
 
#21 ·
Well, I'm not going to flame you here. It's a reasonable question. Why spend an extra $900+ on a 9mm can if you can use your existing .45 can. As for the guy who said they release info like to sell more stuff. What do you say to this:

AAC sells a piston for the TiRant 45 to use on a 9mm. The cost being ~$75.

If they were interested in selling more stuff why would they sell that piston at all? It would make more sense to just make people buy a Ti-rant 9.

How is that ?!?!?! BURN!!!!

Back to Brahma, I plan on doing the same thing as you. I have the Ti-rant 45 for my Mark 23. I also want to use it with my USP-SD. I will have to get the piston from my class 3 dealer because I haven't been able to find them online and AAC says I can't get it directly. If your using subsonic ammo you should be close to the Ti-rant 9 dB level. Of course it won't be exact, but like I said, it beats spending another $900 plus $200 for the stamp.
 
#22 ·
Exactly, but I hoped to hear (no pun intended) some kind of data because there are a lot of people with resources and time enough to supply that, if it existed, and I have time to digest it.

Straightgrain's post I took as an example. or e;se I'd be happy with that. I was hoping for a db comparison between an existing 9mm can vs a 9mm through a can. Surely some other HK Geek on here besides me dreamed this up. Personally, I'm always hoping G3Kurz will ride in to the rescue with reams of data....
 
#24 · (Edited)
This is about as simple a comparison I was looking for. It's different, but you get the idea...

SILENCERCO Osprey, AAC Tirant, AAC Evo, with Speer Lawman 230 gr. ammo Sound Test - YouTube

* A reasonable measurment of decibel levels
* A stated mic placement
* A stated ammo type for the intended (45 acp, but I need 9mm) Host

What I'd like to see is:

* A mean db level unsuppressed for a 9mm.
* A mean db level of 9mm suppressed with the TI-RANT 45
* A mean db level of 9mm with a TI-RANT 9.
* All using "standard" 9mm ammo

My wish list would include the SAME tests done with the Remington (manufactured, somewhat available) R9MM8 subsonic ammo.

Yeah, I know silencertest.com, and others, has that type of stuff, but I thought someone in the hK brotherhood would as well...
 
#28 · (Edited)
Using their tests, and giving the benefit of subsonic 9mm ammo and shooting the TI-RANT 9 and TI-RANT 45 wet where those facts aren't stated, it looks acceptable to me to invest in a 9mm piston for $75-$85- that is far less painful to start with than another $1k and 3 month wait. I would also buy subsonic 9mm ammo and shoot wet as a rule.


TI-RANT 45 (Does not say whether wet or dry)
Blazer Brass 230 grain 45 acp
Average Muzzle db: 135.4
Average Ear db: 133.8

TI-RANT 45 (Does not say whether wet or dry)
American 147 grain 9mm (Does not state whether subsonic or not)
Average Muzzle db: 131
Average Ear db: 131.1

TI-RANT 9 (Dry)
American Eagle Subsonic 147 grain 9mm
Average Muzzle db: 128.3
Average Ear db: 136
 
#29 ·
I wish I had the intestinal fortitude to buy a BMW without ever test driving it. Brahma, I get that you are doing your due diligence and trying to assemble facts to help make an informed decision. Still, this is like buying a car based on reports and reviews in Car & Driver. It will give you a direction, but still... test drive the car.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Can I borrow yours? You can send me all yours to test and I'll send them right back. Oh wait, I'll need good sound equipment and ammo too to make reasonable data, because I may nor hear as well as you and just listening might not be an accurate measurement.

Didnt you think that I already tried to find someone who has demo inventory at roughly $1k apiece to just play around with and test? Because there isn't anywhere that will let me do so around me.

Therefore, this research is the only thing I, and I presume, most people have, or didn't that dawn on you from the start? For that matter, this forum exists for this and every type of question- to gain experience from "others who have been there." and if you do understand that, why did you pick on me and my post to essentially say "your question is silly, do it yourself".
I CANNOT.

I really do not understand where you are coming from with your comments on this post.
 
#32 ·
... this research is the only thing I, and I presume, most people have, or didn't that dawn on you from the start?
OK... let me tell you how "we" research buying a new can.

I pick a gun I want to quiet down a bit... lets go with an EAA 9m pistol. CZ design, steel, built like a rock and reliable as all get out. Buy a threaded barrel for it and install it.

Now you wait for the next machine gun shoot to happen. Why? Because suppressors exist where ever machine guns get used. Go up and down the line for a bit... find some cans that will fit (thread match) and ask the guy if he would demonstrate his can for you. 100.99% of the guys I know would be happy to do this for you and it gives them a chance to spout and yodel all the vast info they have to you, thereby satisfying their need to feel more reasonably knowledgeable. Ask nicely and they'd most likely be just as happy to let you try the can out on YOUR pistol.

Now do this several times at the shoot (I have never been to a shoot where I didn't see just about one of everything) and you can make a genuine, honest evaluation based not only on others opinions but more importantly, on your own hearing because as we've said countless times before, everyone's hearing is different... the guns are different, the ammos different, etc, ad nauseum.

So that's it... as they say, you can lead a horse to water...
 
#31 ·
Seriously... You are the one needs to relax. You seem to be frustrated and a bit wound up. "Didnt you think that I already tried to find someone who has demo inventory at roughly $1k apiece to just play around with and test?" Umm, no. I did not make that assumption. Matter of fact, this is the first time in the conversation that you even hinted at considering it. In my experience, most people are unaware that trying something like this is even an option, but it is. So I do not assume that you tried. Thanks for clearing that bit up.

"Can I borrow yours? You can send me all yours to test and I'll send them right back. Oh wait, I'll need good sound equipment and ammo too to make reasonable data, because I may nor hear as well as you and just listening might not be an accurate measurement." Again... Umm, no. Because I do not have one to loan you. And why would you need my sound equipment? Regardless of whether you hear as well or worse than me, it's *your* perception that matters. "I really do not understand where you are coming from with your comments on this post." It doesn't matter what the number says if you prefer one over the other. Is that the part you don't understand? Seriously, is that the part you don't get? I'm happy to come up with some easier to understand analogies if you like.

And what is this $1K you are talking about? You said that you already had the can. You said that you wanted to know about the piston. According to the AAC site, the piston costs a whopping $75. Of course, you would need to also buy new barrels for the guns you want to play with. But you would need to do that anyway, regardless of what solution you settled on, so that is a sunk cost.

For the record, IMO your question wasn't silly. It was your evaluation criteria that I found silly because it does not provide you with the answers you need. Do you want to win the stat war or do you want the system to sound good to you?
 
#35 ·
Hmm... think you might have a slight problem with that... but since you only want numbers and charts and refuse to listen to people that have been there, done that, and have the t-shirt to prove it, there's not much more we can say. Do it your way and I hope for the best for you. Either way, I've said all I'm going to... you're on your own.
 
#34 ·
Brahma, you wanna cop an attitude because you don't like me and others pointing out that your methodology is flawed, fine. Do not start flinging foul language and accusing me of having it in for you in colorful terms.
 
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