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Thread: What ammo does Secret Service,Elite use

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    Default What ammo does Secret Service,Elite use

    What ammo does the secret service,seals,???? use in their MP5's? I was thinking about the round nose FMJ would probably be the closest to 100% reliability in a subgun but where do they stack up from there?I would likely imagine that FMJ is not used just to up the ante on the 9mm lethality,but where is the line drawn between compromising potential problems in reliability and maximum stopping power?

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    There is a variety of approved ammunition (9mm and 5.56) which can be tailored to various mission and weapon parameters.

    Also, there is a large differece between LE ammuntion legality (HP's) and military use in various capacities. HP's are able to be used within certain applications, with all the right sign-off's.

    There can be a range used as well even within specific units, ODA's, etc., depending on weapon selection. All the basics are reviewed in developing the opplan and then weapon/ammo selections are made from there.

    In the LE world, though, usually the agency issued ammunition is based on a combo of factors such as performance, costs, testing by end user or other agency. One hears a lot of "cause that what the "insert high speed tactical unit name here" use, and that's good enough for us"!
    SFCat66

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCat66 View Post
    One hears a lot of "cause that what the "insert high speed tactical unit name here" use, and that's good enough for us"!
    True dat... same problems exist in the purchasing world. Purchasers wish to get the most bang for their buck, not necessarily the best, but the most. If any crap comes back down the line it's usually "Hey, what do you want from me? I bought what everyone else buys".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rext View Post
    What ammo does the secret service,seals,???? use in their MP5's? I was thinking about the round nose FMJ would probably be the closest to 100% reliability in a subgun but where do they stack up from there?I would likely imagine that FMJ is not used just to up the ante on the 9mm lethality,but where is the line drawn between compromising potential problems in reliability and maximum stopping power?
    I was told that the Remington 9mm JHP's subsonic are used by LEO's in certain situations as a reliable feeding suppressed round.

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    I was just wondering about this subject and thought enough people here would probably know?I was wondering if the JHP was reliable enough to count on in a situation like you mentioned.I would almost think that it would have to be used to be assured of stopping power.

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    Ah, the ubiquitous terms..."stopping power", and "reliability".

    One is a function of the other.

    Stopping power is a term that has many facets, but the one that I define by how much blood can I cause the bad guy to lose in a short a time period as possible to effect physical shutdown of major organ systems.

    So, in order to punch those holes, reliably, using my HK product of choice, I have to use ammunition that will cycle the weapon, and achieve the terminal performance I want, as well as me doing my part as the shooter (controlled bursts, accurate placement) whilst holding my favorite German subgun.

    An issue with the 9mm, especially ball ammo, is that I liken it to using an ice pick. 9mm ball makes lots of holes that seal back up, hence the wide preference to use of .40/.45 caliber, for larger wound channel.

    Now, this will degenerate into a ballistic thread from this point, but I don't think that that's the point of your post.

    Now, for mechanical reliability, the Klocker has the advantage. No matter what the round, I haven't really encountered any feed problems that aren't ammunition or magazine issues, absent some mechanical breakage on the part of the weapon.

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    rext

    At one time I believe the Secret Service used Geco B.A.T. 9mm ammo. The BAT ammo was shorthand for Blitz Action Trauma. It was a hollow point ammo capped with a plastic insert that gave the bullet the profile of a round nose. Once fired the plastic insert dropped off to reveal a very large hollow point cavity. The ones I have seen looked to be made of copper altought an old gun magazine article on the ammo indicated that it was made of brass. Never have seen any brass ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HkCHUCK View Post
    rext

    At one time I believe the Secret Service used Geco B.A.T. 9mm ammo. The BAT ammo was shorthand for Blitz Action Trauma. It was a hollow point ammo capped with a plastic insert that gave the bullet the profile of a round nose. Once fired the plastic insert dropped off to reveal a very large hollow point cavity. The ones I have seen looked to be made of copper altought an old gun magazine article on the ammo indicated that it was made of brass. Never have seen any brass ones.
    That is along the info I was looking for.I have not shot enough HP ammo through subguns to determine one more reliable over the other. I would think as you get away from a round nose bullet,feeding problems would increase at about the same rate.Thus a trade off over reliability to stpping power.I am just looking at ammo issues in a subgun,not the actual gun itself or balistics as noted earlier.

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    rext: others have reported no problems feeding the JHP's out of the German factory 30 rnd curved mags. They also said they had problems with the straight mags fully loaded. They advised only loading 20 rounds to correct the feeding issue.

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the SEALs removed the MP5s out of issue and went to M4's. I wonder what kind of .223 they use?
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