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Thread: HK 416 .22 v. Smith & Wesson M & P 15 .22????

  1. #1
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    Default HK 416 .22 v. Smith & Wesson M & P 15 .22????

    I'm looking for an all around really fun range target plinker and I've come across the two listed above. I've been doing some reading about both and they both get decent reviews. Are there any other .22 really cool looking, fun to shoot LR out there I'm missing? I don't want to break the bank but I really want to get something like one of these. Any input on either, or another I haven't seen would be appreciated.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    I'm surprised no one has responded to this yet. Go to Walmart and actually hold a S&W 22 then go to a LGS and hold/feel a HK416.
    There is no comparison. The M&P feels just like an airsoft rifle. It feels like a toy.
    The 416 is solid. Get it and never look back.
    Lots of HKs... and a couple of others.

  3. #3
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    Consider Sig 522. About the same price. It is rumored the Sig is made by Sig and the HK is made by Umerex. I have the Sig and the trigger is very nice and it shoots straight.

  4. #4
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    I have a few opinions on this... I have a GSG-5 and the Umarex MP5-SD. The Umarex is a better gun, and holds 25 rounds. I will probably end up getting the S&W M&P simply because it has a threaded barrel so I can run it suppressed. Yes, the 416 has a threaded barrel also, but when you combine slightly higher cost (both gun and additional mags), and lower magazine capacity I'm going with the M&P. Reliability is arguably the same.

    I love the MP5-SD but while it looks cool, I can't run it suppressed.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyboy52f View Post
    Consider Sig 522. About the same price. It is rumored the Sig is made by Sig and the HK is made by Umerex. I have the Sig and the trigger is very nice and it shoots straight.
    +1 I also have the sig. THE most reliable of 22lr auto loaders available. I have taken 6 different types/brands of ammo and mix matched loaded them in 25 round mags and rapid fired them to try to get a jam. Not a hiccup. I dont know what sig did to get it right on this rifle but they did. Not to mention, the lower on the Sig is polymer but the upper is metal, not so much with the smith. Shoots great and breaks down/cleans super easy I would recommend it to anyone looking for a 22lr.

  6. #6
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    Having both the HK416D and the M&P15-22, I much prefer the S&W product as it’s more like the original in function.* The HK has the look of the real thing, but beyond that, it’s just a cosmetic shell.* Some comments:
    *
    The S&W breaks down like a normal AR in that you have front and rear pushpins that separate the lowers.* In addition, the whole bolt and recoil spring assembly pull out the rear similar to the normal AR bolt and carrier, allowing normal access to the chamber end of the barrel and the full bolt for cleaning.* You can also remove the charging handle, as on a real AR.* On the HK, you push out the rear pin, which is very tight to break open the upper and lower.* However, the bolt and spring are in a metal shell that is in the cosmetic upper receiver and are not meant to be removed.* The only access to the bolt face or chamber is through the ejection port in the gap from the retracted bolt.* For cleaning the barrel on the HK, you either have to come in from the muzzle, or use a bore snake or flexible cleaning rod with a very short brush if you want to clean from the chamber end.
    *
    The S&W has a fully functioning bolt hold open/release on the side that works just like a normal AR.* Press the bottom to lock the bolt back, press the top to release the bolt.* On the HK, the BHO is a non-functional lump molded on the side of the receiver.* The only way to lock back the bolt is with an empty mag, and the only way to release it is to pull back on the charging handle and let go.
    *
    The muzzle threading on the S&W is AR standard, so you can change out the flash hider for other things with the same thread.* On the HK, the threading is unique.* The HK barrel is actually pencil thin; what you see on the outside is a shroud, and the FH actually is used to align the barrel inside the shroud.* You need an adapter if you want to attach standard AR muzzle accessories to the HK. Also, the S&W has a normal diameter barrel instead of the pencil barrel on the HK, although with the FH locking the barrel to the shoud, the accuracy with the HK is pretty good.
    *
    The S&W dummy buffer tube and receiver are close enough in size to normal that AR stocks and grips can be used.* My 15-22 came from the factory with a Magpul MOE stock and grip (the stock fits fine, but there is a gap between the upper rear of the grip and the underside of the lower receiver).* I’ve also heard that the trigger parts are close enough in the S&W that some AR parts can be used to improve the trigger.* The HK trigger is quite different from a normal AR trigger.* Don’t know if the grip and stock on the HK are standard size.
    *
    The mags for the S&W are cheaper in my experience than the ones for the HK.* The S&W comes with a 25 round mag, while the HK comes with a 20 rd mag, although I think the HK/Umarex mags look more like metal AR mags than the S&W version.* Also, I think the S&W is cheaper.* I paid less for my 15-22 with Magpul MBUS, MOE stock, grip, and ladder rail covers included, than I did for my 416.
    *
    The S&W is lighter, although it’s worth mentioning that it has a polymer upper, lower, and quad rail.* I'll also mention that the S&W lacks an ejection port cover, whereas the HK does have a normal AR type cover. The HK also has a more normal "heft", which could be good or bad depending on what you want.
    *
    I own the HK416D, the M&P15-22, and a SIG522 SWAT, and if I had to get rid of one of them, I have to say the 416 would probably be the first to go.* I think the look is the best of the bunch, but the functions like the inability to remove the bolt and non-functional BHO are big turnoffs for me.
    *
    My two cents.
    *
    Last edited by dwillHK; 05-30-2012 at 05:17 PM.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for your comments, dwill. I enjoyed the comparisons and noted most the same while "fingering" an M&P in Wallyworld.

    I'm curious, how do you like the Sig compared to the S&W? I know this is like comparing apples to oranges, but I mean overall.
    Last edited by BassOverflow; 05-30-2012 at 06:10 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassOverflow View Post
    Thanks for your comments, dwill. I enjoyed the comparisons and noted most the same while "fingering" an M&P in Wallyworld.

    I'm curious, how do you like the Sig compared to the S&W? I know this is like comparing apples to oranges, but I mean overall.

    The SIG is more expensive (at least locally) and the magazines are also more pricey...its not as easily broken down as well....solid gun at the range but wasn't wowed by it either--I positively HATE the stock

    The 15-22 was my choice because of the aformentioned AR breakdown procedure/ 1/2-28 threading on the barrel/magazine availability and overall price...it also takes standard Mil-Spec sized AR stocks and grips as well as being lighter weight; which is nice when running optics as well as BUIS because the weight piles up in a hurry!

    The magazines are regularly less than $20 on 44mag.com and it will literally eat anything I feed it....I have shot a 1.5" group at 75yards with optics on mine...I have over 10k rounds through it without any major issues

    Another plus is a standard AR trigger group will drop-in as well--I never saw a need myself

  9. #9
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    Big Dog has Sig 522 mags on sale for 10 each

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    Quote Originally Posted by USPc_4_life View Post
    The SIG is more expensive (at least locally) and the magazines are also more pricey...its not as easily broken down as well....solid gun at the range but wasn't wowed by it either--I positively HATE the stock

    The 15-22 was my choice because of the aformentioned AR breakdown procedure/ 1/2-28 threading on the barrel/magazine availability and overall price...it also takes standard Mil-Spec sized AR stocks and grips as well as being lighter weight; which is nice when running optics as well as BUIS because the weight piles up in a hurry!

    The magazines are regularly less than $20 on 44mag.com and it will literally eat anything I feed it....I have shot a 1.5" group at 75yards with optics on mine...I have over 10k rounds through it without any major issues

    Another plus is a standard AR trigger group will drop-in as well--I never saw a need myself
    I would have to disagree with you on ease of break down. THe Sig has the same two push pins an ar does and opens the same way, pull out the charging handle and the bolt group slides out the back the same way. how is that more difficult? The Sig magazines are actually made by black dog machine, if you want the sig bubble packaging you will pay 10-15 extra per mag OR just buy the black dog mags and you have the choice of the smoke or solid black mags with your choice of nylon, or steel feed lips! I get them for $13 dollars locally. I will however agree with you on the stock. Sig tried to make two camps happy by giving the illusion of the original swiss style 551 stock while trying to maintain the adjustability of the M4 stock that came on the original ER frame 556 models. Current new 556's come with the swiss stock (I have both for mine and the fixed stock is vastly superior)but sig decided to keep the adjustable model for the 522 so you could adjust LOP for adults/children/women etc. I also do like the option of the side folding stock. And the variants of models are enough to pretty much suit everyones needs-Classic hand gaurds, swat with quad rail, 16 inch barrel or 20 inch heavy barrel or commando with the threaded barrel. They are a little more pricey than the S&W but not too bad considering the S&W is totaly polymer and the Sig has the metal upper. You can get them between $425 and $650 depending on the model you want.
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