Copy of an e-mail I sent today to HK Customer Service…
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November 11, 2009
HK Customer Service Department
I purchased a HK 416 Upper Receiver Kit in August, 2009. I have not fired this upper receiver since I purchased it.
Recently when I was inspecting this HK 416 Upper Receiver Kit I noticed that the Barrel Extension does have M4 (carbine) type feed ramps; however, I also notice that the upper receiver does not have the correlated M4 (carbine) type feed ramps.
It appears to me that this lack of feed rams on the upper receiver does created a lip (or shelf) that the tip of the round feed feeding from the magazine must overcome before engaging the feed ramps on the barrel extension.
See attached pictures.
Is this a deliberate design on the part of HK or a design error that can be corrected?
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I have contacted HK Customer Service about this issue but no answer yet?
What do you guys think? Use your veiw settings to zoom in on these pictures)
Notice the lack of the M4 type feed ramps on the receiver!
I am willing to bet that when this upper is installed on a HK lower and when a mag is inserted the rounds enter the chamber high enough that there is no issue in feeding.
I for one have not heard any issues existing relating to this design. The 416 is not a AR-15 so the design in no way has to mirror that of the Colt design.
On my Colt M4 the feed ramps are cut into the upper however when the mag is in the gun you can see that the tip of the nose of the bullet never comes anywhere near the where the extra metal is milled out. To me the Germans probably saw this for what it is in the American design, that is over-engineering and they simple saved a step in manicuring that by and large is uncessesary.
Looks exactly same on my MR223. With magazine inserted bullet tip is over feed ramps. If bullet tip would contact lower receiver, this mean it's pointing downwars and there is no way to chambe it, ramps or no ramps.
Actually I don't think that bulled even makes any form on contact with feed ramps with proper operation (when not cleaned for some time I can not notice any marks on deposits on feed ramps). Those are here in case of some magazine problems with feeding, especially with full auto fire, when rounds can oscilate in magazine (this happens in USGI mags - HK HRM magazine is designed to prevent this).
Not to worry Gehwer. This is a non-issue. Don't compare it to your M4-type design. They are as different as night and day. Long feed ramps can never make up for overall poor performance of the system. The HK416 runs just fine with the original design.
G3Kurz
The M4 feedramps aren't completely needed if everything is ideal but with a loose magazine or debris in the mag causing some problems the longer feedramps are there to help.
The AR15 has the exact same ramps as the 416, the M4 feed ramps are an extreme pain to put in during manufacturing.
I don't see this being a completely different system as an M4, they are closer to the same design than they are different, how can you even argue that. The gas system from the G36 was derived from the AR18.
I love HK products, the HK 416, you can't really call a ground up new design.
I've had three 416 uppers...all had feed ramps that looked just like that. No worries at all cause Hk 416's are not known to have any feeding problems.
I second G3kurz comment. It's a non issue, the Colt M4 had the feeding problems.
Feeding was not a problem with the original M16/AR-15s and it certainly is not an issue with the HK 416s.
Go to the range and enjoy.
Thanks guys for the feedback on this issue! Today I received a response from HK Customer Service. They are asking for the receiver’s serial number! Say what! What serial number?
Their e-mail message to me was:
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Where did you purchase the upper and what is the serial number on the upper?
HK Customer Service
5675 Transport Blvd.
Columbus, GA 31907
Tel: (706) 568-1906
Fax: (706) 568-9151 www.hk-usa.com
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My response was:
This upper receiver was purchased in August, 2007, from Jim Mazurek, a Class III dealer in Brookfield, IL. He is no longer in business.
I cannot locate a serial number located on this upper receiver. However, on the upper receiver is the date code “AF.” On the barrel is the date code “AF 9K.”
Thank you,
XXXXXXX
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My adventure with HK is beginning! Maybe I should just call it good and leave good enough alone?
Yeah, just to be safe I would not tell Hk any more info about your upper. They are all butt-hurt that dealers were parting these uppers out and it was against Hk's policy.
There is a serial number on the bottom edge of the upper receiver. If you have the upper off the lower, look at the bottom view where you would be able to see the bottom of the bolt carrier. On the edge of the aluminum receiver there should be a serial number in white.
frankly, you told them more than I would have, but that is just me. as for the feed ramp deal, not to worry. I've run many, many, many rounds through my upper, never a hicup. I'm not a firearms engineer, or even a gun smith, but it seems to me, what ever magic they used to build the 416 it works....
If you can see these photos, depending on what axis you can rotate during manufacturing, the mods to the receiver are a nightmare. The barrel extension is the easy part.
From this photo it looks like HK416/MR223 feed ramps are somewhere in between of "standard cut" and "M4 cut". But also looks like they are OK - no that I would expect something other from HK
Of course, you created a situation where there was not one to begin with... You assumed that there would be a problem by assuming that your visual interpretation of the feed ramps indicated a problem... where none existed. Then, HK wanted to know where you got it from because you are not the original owner of the item. HK is testy about this. Although the person that you bought it from did nothing illegal by parting it out, he did violate HK's purchase policy.
Today, I received the following message for HK Customer Service.
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Your upper is normal and there is nothing to worry about. That is the design of the weapon.
Thank you
HK Customer Service
5675 Transport Blvd.
Columbus, GA 31907
Tel: (706) 568-1906
Fax: (706) 568-9151 www.hk-usa.com
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Based on your responses, I did take a very close look at the interface of magazine and the feed ramps of the HK 416 barrel. Sure enough, the front upper lip of the magazine body matches to the upper receiver’s lip (just below the feed ramps). As stated by all of you, sure enough, this allows for a (almost?) 90 degree straight in feeding of the round from the magazine into the barrel’s chamber. Hence, these feed ramps do serve some functionality.
My old HK416 upper had no M4 ramps at all-and I purchased it for $4,000!
That's why I sold it and went to an LWRCI M6A3. This must have been a later correction to newer uppers! I had not heard that HK was incorporating M4 Ramps into the 416 uppers. Is this a new development??
My old HK416 upper had no M4 ramps at all-and I purchased it for $4,000!
That's why I sold it and went to an LWRCI M6A3. This must have been a later correction to newer uppers! I had not heard that HK was incorporating M4 Ramps into the 416 uppers. Is this a new development??
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