Hi Guys, I have been following this site for some years. My entire life has involved firearms and hunting and I spent 15 years in the New Zealand Army as an Infantryman. I have spent the last 10 years in Africa. During the last few months I have repeatedly encountered a group providing security aid to South Sudan. As I understand it they are funded by the French and Israeli and possibly British governments. They were very clearly very professional and competent. They wore a multicam uniform and battle rattle and were clearly well kitted and disciplined. They appeared to be somewhat more than the usual private contractors. Unless you knew otherwise you would swear they were government troops.
The reason for my post is that they were all carrying HK417s in various configurations. All with suppressors, Atlas bipods and Acogs. None would say anything about the company or discuss any matters about themselves or their equipment.They also all carried HK USP Tactical 9mms and there was a number of HKMP7A1, HK21E and HK121 GPMGs evident. Some vehicles had HK GMGs mounted
Does anyone have any idea who these guys might be? The name Rampart was on a vehicle but I do not know for sure if it was theirs.....
I asked around and some Brit soldiers said that these guys have been seen all over recently.
Last edited by Northafrica; 05-09-2012 at 09:56 AM.
There was a user on "m4carbine.net" who was banned. His screen-name was "Rampart". Are you the same guy? You mention the usage of the HK121 GPMG, which is in pre-production right now. How can it be in usage in a mysterious PMC Unit in North Africa, as you claim? I smell bullshit here.
Link to the above mentioned thread: H&K 417 Employment feedback? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums
Germangunner, I am not that individual. I saw that thread and was very sceptical.
I still do not know what to make of it all, but reading it again and considering my first hand experience gives me cause for further thought. I am beginning to think they are government troops presenting as PMCs for some obscure political reason. The gear (weapons especially), appearance and demeanour all shout Special Forces not PMC. It appears the same group is active in Chad, CAR, Libya, Yemen, Oman, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia and possibly Morocco and Algeria. A vast area for a PMC…. I did not call them mysterious, I was merely wondering if anyone here knew anything about them.
To answer you query about the 121, they have been around for at least 2 years. I have seen them with various French and Spanish units (albeit in small numbers) fairly regularly. The 221 is far more plentiful but often mistaken for L7A1/2. How am I sure what I have seen? I am a weapons instructor and have worked with all these weapons for HK in the region. HK do not publish a great deal of the sales/ users because of political sensitivities. I have noticed a strong tendency for HKUSA to be well behind HK Europe in announcing weapons news as well.
Those points are not for this thread though. The real point of the post was to point out the use of the 417 per the thread title.
In that vein, troops from Kazakhstan, Portugal, Spain, France, Norway, Israel, Turkey, Poland, South Africa, UK and the Danes have all had the 417 when here.
The rationale is easy to see. Africa is littered with FNFALS, G3s and SLRs. The guys who use them are reasonably well trained, skilled (ex) soldiers who work in numbers as effective teams. They simply equal very effective firepower at very long ranges. Just to be on an even standing, you need select fire 7.62 weapons as a minimum. To use 5.56 (an AR for example) against this would be like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
No one here has found any other auto 7.62 weapons reliable, accurate or controllable enough, particularly after heavy auto use. The FN SCAR is not as user friendly as the 417 and can be a fussy feeder when
suppressed. The Sig716 is next best but still no match for the 417. Direct impingement AR designs crap themselves to death in short order and the piston AR’s fall short in accuracy or controllability or
stop due to heat far too frequently.
The 417 is always reliable with all brands/loads of ammo, is easily employed in all situations, retains single shot accuracy even after serious auto use and needs an absolute minimum of field maintenance to stay this way. As a complete package nothing touches the 417. Many weapons will out perform it on a single point. It is the heaviest but that is because it is built with better/ more material. It also lacks a burst selector but proper fire discipline and training answer this.
7.62 is punishing and soon shows up design and material shortcomings in combat use, especially in auto use. Look at the Aussie heavy barrel SLR lack of success.
What? You got any pictures? I know they have HK G36Ks.Originally Posted by Kirby
India, did you read the VM I posted on your profile?
Brazilian Federal Police:
HK417 and HK416
West Mercia Police (UK) Task Force HK416/417. Had them for 3 years now to replace our SIG552 Swats.
Nice! Can you be more specific as to the exact configuration (barrel length)? Are these semi-only like other British police weapons? Do you mean the SIG SG551 SWAT (362mm barrel) or SG552 Commando (226mm barrel)? Many thanks!
Cheers
HANS
Santa Barbara County Sheriff (CA) Special Enforcement Team was one of the first US local agencies to use the HK416. These serve alongside HK MP5/40s (most team members are issued w/ their choice, or both) and also replaced a small number of M4s and some G36Cs. The current standard sidearm of our agency is the HK USP40, possibly soon to be replaced by Glock 22 Gen 4s or HK P30s.
Last edited by bcm3087; 08-02-2012 at 07:52 AM.
Hans,
yes all semi only, the 416 we use with the 14.5 inch 368mm barrel, the 417 I wont comment (sorry) and apologies my bad they replaced SG551 SWAT (which I really liked). The 416 we use EoTech red dot with x3 magnifier though I tend to flip this to the side in most cases and a surefire grip/torch combination. We carry a Harris bipod if necessary. The HKs are in another league the Rolls Royce of Assault rifles.
Last edited by jingo399; 08-02-2012 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Spelling!
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote