[Turbo-j]

for you Tspeis..great talking with you..if this is not what you wanted, let me know..

 

[Tspeis]

Exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks Turbo-j. It was great talking to you as well.


Take care,

Tspeis

 

[HKPRO]

Why wouldn't you do it? I'd rather have the match trigger and "generation I" flexibility. Turbo-J hasn't had any problems and the standard AR15 I had which was a Colt Blue-Label preban did just fine without that extra device..

Because if you do, you might get a slam fire. That good enough?

 

[Gewehr 416]

It does not have to be a hammer from a full auto trigger kit, but it cannot have the notch cut-out commonly found on some manufacturers semi-auto trigger assembly's. Some semi-only triggers have the notch cut out, some do not.

My LMT lower parts kit had the notch cut hammer, thats why I had to swap it out. Its certainly not a problem, 416 uppers just hit a little higher on the hammer. It cost me nothing but $10 and about ten minutes to swap out...

I agree with Va Dinger!!!!

H&K markets their 416 with available “drop in kits” consisting of the upper receiver assembly, buffer and recoil spring assembly, and a magazine. In all of the H&K 416 (drop in kit) marketing documentation that I have seen there is no mention of having to replace the hammer.

However, it does stand to reason that since H&K has been marketing their H&K 416 drop in kits exclusively to the military and law enforcement markets, there is the possibility that the shape and overall height of the hammer to order it to activate the fire fin safety is very possible.

Indeed, the H&K 416 Operator’s Manual makes reference many times to “…when mounting the H&K 416 upper receiver on a M16 style lower receiver…" Note that one can assume that a “M16 style lower receiver” will have a full-automatic type trigger in it.

Last year I bought one of the available H&K 416 upper receiver kits and I mounted in on my Colt M4 carbine (full-auto, ATF registered) receiver. It shoots great on semi and full automatic fire.

I agree with Va Dinger, I would just buy a good quality full-automatic hammer (Colt manufactured from Specialized Armament or Brownells), install it correctly, and I am sure it will work fine!

 

[Tspeis]

I would just buy a good quality full-automatic hammer (Colt manufactured from Specialized Armament or Brownells), install it correctly, and I am sure it will work fine!

I agree with everything you said except one thing. I'd steer clear of installing a full auto hammer in a semi auto lower. With something like a full auto carrier, the ATF seems to turn and look the other way, but with something like a full auto hammer, their panties get bunched up real quick. There are, as VA Dinger mentioned, semi auto hammers without the notched cutout at the top that can be easily purchased and installed.


Tspeis

 

[Gewehr 416]

I agree with everything you said except one thing. I'd steer clear of installing a full auto hammer in a semi auto lower. With something like a full auto carrier, the ATF seems to turn and look the other way, but with something like a full auto hammer, their panties get bunched up real quick. There are, as VA Dinger mentioned, semi auto hammers without the notched cutout at the top that can be easily purchased and installed.
Tspeis

Ok Tspeis, I stand corrected and I agree with you 100-percent; perhaps a semi-automatic only trigger that meets the height and shape requirements would be better. I do not mean to brag, but I having my collection of ATF registered M4s for all these years, I sometimes forget about the ATF regulations about full-automatic parts in semi-only receivers. I do not ever suggest that anyone at anytime break a federal, state, or local statute reguarding these types of firearms! Thanks for the excellent suggestion!

After reading this thread, I just measured all of the trigger heights in my M4s, all measure 7/8 inch. It is amazing what one can learn for such an excellent thread such as this one!

H&K designed the firing pin safety for a number of reasons, mainly to stop any possibility of a slam fire and unintended firing due to firing fin momentum. To understand firing pin imomentum, just look at the slight indentation of the primer of a chambered cartridge in a standard AR. The H&K 416, like all German designed automatic weapons, has a very high cycle rate that promotes these problems!

I will have to agree that I do not know if it is a good idea to remove the firing pin safety. I do know that I am not removing mine!

 

[Turbo-j]

After reading this thread, I just measured all of the trigger heights in my M4s, all measure 7/8 inch. It is amazing what one can learn for such an excellent thread such as this one!

Gewehr..so just to clarify.. the 416 that worked with your m4's were with hammers that measured 7/8", not 3/4" right? I guess it would be safe to say that a hammer with a mimimum height of 7/8, not 1" will work with the GEN 2 hk416 bolt carrriers.. amazing how much we learned here and how much 1/8 of an inch makes..

 

[HarryCalahan1]

That sounds interestingbut...

Gewehr,
That sounds interesting but I want my Geissele match trigger. Besides I can always use by Colt M4 buffer and Spring. But I would probably use all the HK stuff and just pop out that firing pin safety.

I don't see how you'd get a slam fire unless you dropped the gun on the butt. Even then, I never chamber a round unless or until I'm ready to go and that's still the best/safest practice.

Also Gewehr 416, high cyclic rates are not an issue with semi-autos. You have those full auto Colt M4's so it's understandable that you might look at it differently. In fact that 416 is designed for full auto so that might be an issue with an NFA weapon but I don't think it's near as bad with a semi. I'm not settling for a 4 pound military trigger when i can have a match. Slight indentations in primers or not, I never had any problem with my Colt preban/M4 upper semiauto in the field.

The best safety is still the one between your ears. Without that nothing is safe!

 

[AviatorDave]

I don't see how you'd get a slam fire unless you dropped the gun on the butt. Even then, I never chamber a round unless or until I'm ready to go and that's still the best/safest practice.

The best safety is still the one between your ears. Without that nothing is safe!

I think you misunderstand what a slam fire is. First, you're not likely to induce a slam fire by dropping it on it's butt. Inertia will push the firing pin away from the primer in that case, not into it.

Slam firing is when you have a gun that is in semi-auto mode, but fires more than one round with a single trigger pull because either a) when the reciprocating parts go back into battery, the firing pin flies forward and ignites the primer of the new round, even though it hasn't been hit by the hammer, or b) some mechanical problem with the trigger disconnector doesn't hold the hammer back like it should, and it follows the recip parts back to battery and fires the next round.

It's basically a semi-auto gun that fires in full-auto mode. It can even be dangerous, like if it happens before the action is fully locked into battery. It's not YOU that chamber and fire the next round, the rifle always chambers the next round, but it just fires it off when you didn't 'tell' it to.

It can be caused by different factors in different types of actions, but that is the general idea.

 

[HarryCalahan1]

Turbo-J I didn't get back to this thread to see those pics!!

Turbo-J I didn't get back to this thread to see those photobucket picks of the Generation I & II HK bolt groups. They're gone/deleted now.

Can you email all those pics to me?? My email is gilbert159@hotmail.com. I'd really appreciate it good buddy as I've learned an awful lot already!

 

[Turbo-j]

harry..fixed!!!

 

[HarryCalahan1]

Damn I've learned a lot! Thanks Turbo-J! Hkpro this is an awesome forum!

Damn this is a great forum. Turbo-J you rule! Those pics are excellent and really clarify a lot. I've even learned more about my old Colt preban!

I saved and printed out this stuff to add to my AR15/M4 manual and notes.

HKPRO this is an awesome forum! Best exchange of information I've seen yet and one of the best threads on the forum! We need more threads like this. Almost like going to night school.

 

[HarryCalahan1]

Turbo-J this makes me really want a Generation 1 Bolt assembly....

I don't want that unconventional funky firing pin, or the unconventional/heavier Bolt parts.

Turbo-J this makes me really want a Generation 1 bolt carrier and assembly!

Would your friend, or anyone else you know like to sell me one?

 

[forFREEDOM]

ok took a few pics...you will see a comparison of HK 416 Gen 1 and 2 bolt carrier groups...

BOTTOM: Gen 1 bolt carrier, MIDDLE: Gen 2 "modified" to accept geissele trigger or any other "short hammer triggers", TOP: is an unmodified Gen 2 bolt carrier group

hk 416 bolts compared to ar15 bolt assembly

Gen 1 on top, notice different bolt on gen 2..its machined to accept firing pin spring...firing pins are same length, but newer gen 2 seems more "beefier" ..i guess to also accomadate firing pin safety lever

gen 1 compared to "typical" ar15 bolt assembly, notice gas rings on bolt..oh i forgot its gas impingment..not my "PISTON POWERED" HK416!!!

modifications done for gen 2 bolt to accept geissele trigger..notice that the firing pin safety lever is also spring loaded..

height difference of geissele trigger,its 3/4" tall, not the 7/8" I stated earlier..too short to activate safety lever..

standard hammer "without" notch, found in your standard ar15 small parts kit..not really 1", but it works on my friends Gen 1 HK416 bolt w/POF GEN 3 lower and my GEN 2 bolt when I had the firing pin safety lever..

they say a 1 stage trigger is for competition shooting and a 2 stage is for tactical situations, once you fire a geissele 2 stage, you'll never go back to single stage standard ar15 "small parts kit triggers"..its expensive, but its just feels so right!!! like Snap on tools..."Cry once, Buy the Best!!"

Turbo J. These are awesomoe photos. I know this is an old thread, but seeing the first and second gen bolt groups is very cool. And now I may just order my Geissele after all.

 

[Trip]

my sbr lower POF would not work, i simply swapped hammers from a RRA pistol lower.