Demilling a 416 for civillian sale

[rschmi]

Ok, another Newb question. Tell me if I'm crazy but is there any reason I can't have my FFL purchase a 416, demill it and destroy the lower, and then sell me the upper? I assume that is how the few 416 uppers I've seen for sale came about, but if it's that easy why aren't more people doing it?

And if you can't do this, how are the 416's I see for sale getting on the civilian market?

Thanks guys.

[Rana]

Ok, another Newb question. Tell me if I'm crazy but is there any reason I can't have my FFL purchase a 416, demill it and destroy the lower, and then sell me the upper? I assume that is how the few 416 uppers I've seen for sale came about, but if it's that easy why aren't more people doing it?

And if you can't do this, how are the 416's I see for sale getting on the civilian market?

Thanks guys.

Not that simple.

C3 dealers are getting a letter from a PD to test and evaluate a 416 for "possible" purchase. The C3 dealer gets samples, the dealer destroys or sells off the lowers, then the upper ends up on the market.

This is suppose to be more difficult to do by dealers but there are enough of them (416 uppers) floating around now to keep the market satisfied at the moment- albeit high end prices.

A plane jane FFL holder doesn't have direct access to HK 416's; they will have to pay the same prices that everyone else does if they want a 416 upper.

[rschmi]

So does the FFL have to get a letter from a PD requesting one for eval or could he just buy one to have as a sample if he could find one?

Thanks Rana!

[Rana]

So does the FFL have to get a letter from a PD requesting one for eval or could he just buy one to have as a sample if he could find one?

Thanks Rana!

Having an FFL does not give you access to select-fire machine guns. You have to have a Class3 SOT and the SOT dealer would need a letter from a LEO Agency to aquire a select fire sample(s).

SOT dealers can't just stock pile select-fire weapons for personal use either; those who try/do don't keep their license for very long are certainly going to raise some flags.

[lbreedi1]

I was at Knob Creek and one of the MG dealers had a dealer sample MSG90A1 that they were willing to demill for parts. When I asked why this had not been done more often for these and dealer sample PSG-1's he also mentioned close ATF scrutiny and said it had taken them as long as 2 years to get these guns off list. I always assumed that demiiled guns were taken off the registery,but I did not realize there was a wait.

[HKEsq]

Most of the 416 uppers on the market were imported for law enforcement use, retired from service, and then demilled.

The problem is that it is not lawful to import the barrel for civilian use. The upper (or the complete 416, more likely) can be imported for law enforcement use, military use, or as a dealer sample (with a law letter). Once it has been imported for a lawful purpose it (the upper) can be sold on the civilian market. But it cannot be imported to be sold on the civilian market. The parties importing the gun have to intend that it be lawfully used.

[rohardi]

Most of the 416 uppers on the market were imported for law enforcement use, retired from service, and then demilled.

Most uppers on the market aren't "retired" but bougut by a LEO agency with the intent to demill the gun and sell it for a profit to fund other projects.

[rschmi]

So once again it seems to come down to how much money you want to spend. Didn't realize LEO's were demilling these to raise money. Seems a little shade-y to me...

Hey, there're coming out in Jan 09 anyway so why pay the high prices! LOL

[Rana]

So once again it seems to come down to how much money you want to spend. Didn't realize LEO's were demilling these to raise money. Seems a little shade-y to me...

Hey, there're coming out in Jan 09 anyway so why pay the high prices! LOL

I would get that pre-order in now.

[HKEsq]

Didn't realize LEO's were demilling these to raise money. Seems a little shade-y to me...

That hypothetical scenario is more than shady -- it is patently illegal. It is conspiracy to import in violation of the 1968 Gun Control Act. Vollmers got prosecuted for doing just that some years ago (importing MG's using paperwork signed by LEOs, where the "real" intention was to just demill the guns). The persons making the importation must actually intend to use the 416s for a lawful purpose (e.g. law enforcement use, or as a dealer sample for law enforcement sales).