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Thread: # MueveloNYC's NYC Gun FAQ (Laws and Procedures)

  1. #1
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    Default # MueveloNYC's NYC Gun FAQ (Laws and Procedures)

    4/16/13 - SAFE Act is now in effect... For now start here: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/new-york/...ml#post1348722

    Ok everyone. I got permission from HKPro to build a gun FAQ specifically for NYC since this is the most difficult municipality to own a gun in (other than an outright ban) due to the Sullivan Act. This FAQ is designed to give a basic overview of procedures and the law, but in no way do we guarantee the accuracy or your results, especially since majority of cases are completely subjective to NYPD, as they have final say on who gets a gun and have the ability to deny for any reason. This is only a guideline from past experiences from myself, and others here on HKPro who live in NYC. And if you're not an owner yet, hopefully this info will be a good starting point for you on your path to owning an HK. :)

    Disclaimer: Neither myself nor HKPro.com take any responsibility for your actions direct/indirect/consequential/inconsequential that may result from the information below. The information is presented as-is as a starting point for your own research. This is not legal advice. We do not guarantee its accuracy in any way. Many of these laws are convoluted, vague, and ambiguous, so there is room for interpretation. It is urged that you err on the side of caution, as it's better to be more cautious than lean toward losing your license and becoming a felon (illegal posession, even though you have a license - yes there are situations were you can illegally posess your licensed and registered firearm). Whenever in doubt, please consult the local police and if possible get it in writing. Also if something is in need of updating or something to add, please send me a PM

    Notice to all out of state folks traveling through NY State with a firearm: NY State is the only state in the nation that requires the gun owner to have a license of some kind from the state they are from when transporting a gun through the state under the federal guidelines under "safe transport." In states that don't have permits to own, such as PA, to "safe transport" a firearm through the state or even into the state requires a permit of some kind, even if that's a Concealed Carry (CCW) license from your state. The NRA-ILA has extremely stressed this point on their website when traveling through NY State (especially NYC), as not only can your firearms be impounded, but you could also face jail time. Such is the case also when transporting firearms and guns through the NYC airports (JFK and LaGuardia) and other NY State airports, even if you have permission/clearance from your airline.

    The NYSRPA made comments on this issue: http://www.nysrpa.org/airportwarning.htm

    DOJ's Response on Firearms in Airports in NYC
    http://handgunlaw.us/documents/doj_doc_nyc_air.pdf

    WARNING!: (updated 2/25/09)
    Please take a look at this post here. A recent court ruling in the appellate court ruled that taking your pistol anywhere outside of NYC or the state for that matter, even with valid licenses for other states will result in revocation of your pistol license. Previous info posted below.

    There was an arrest that resulted in 2007 (as posted on packing.org) of someone transporting through the airport but did not have a valid NY State or NYC pistol license. The NYSRPA have stated that best practice is to only travel with a firearm through NYC airports only if you are a NYC/NY State resident with a valid NYC or NY State license.

    Quote from NYSRPA:
    Bottom line, UNLESS you are in possession of a VALID New York pistol license, DO NOT bring a handgun in your luggage to the airport, you will be charged.
    Additionally note: While airlines say you can have ammo and gun stored in the same container, NY State law states you cannot. The gun must be trigger locked, unloaded, locked in a case. Ammunition must be in a separate container. None of these can be on carry on luggage, only checked in, and must be declared and processed before your flight. (Delta and Continental have forms on their website to declare this up front. Fill this out and clear your firearms before your date of travel and confirm with the carrier in writing up front to speed up this process.)

    Note: unloaded firearm may still be classified as loaded in NYC: http://www.newyorkcriminalattorneybl...n_your_un.html

    NYC - NYPD Gun Licensing Info:
    Pistol License Application (finally digital form!):
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pe...lication.shtml
    Pistol types information:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pe...ormation.shtml
    Rifle & Shotgun (different license issued by Kew Gardens in Queens!):
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pe...ormation.shtml

    NYPD Gun FAQ:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pe...sing_faq.shtml

    NYC Gun laws:
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...tle38-rcny.pdf

    NRA-ILA's NY City Law Quick Guide:
    http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYCCL.pdf
    http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf (New York State - yes they differ!)

    NYSRPA NY State Gun Laws Guide:
    http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm

    LCAV's Summary of NY State Gun laws:
    http://lcav.org/states/newyork.asp

    Sites

    New York Legal Publishing Corporation - Public Service Portal
    New York State Legislature - Laws

    Laws

    City - New York City

    New York City - Rules - Title 38: Police Department

    Chapter 1: Dealers In Rifles and Shotguns
    Chapter 2: Organizations Possessing Rifles and Shotguns
    Chapter 3: Rifle/shotgun Permits
    Chapter 4: Gunsmiths and Dealers in Firearms
    Chapter 5: Handgun Licenses
    Chapter 16: Transport Or Delivery of Weapons
    Chapter 17: Prohibited Assault Weapons


    New York City - Administrative Code - Title 10 - Chapter 1 - Section 31: Firearms

    New York City - Administrative Code - Title 10 - Chapter 3: Firearms

    State - New York

    New York State - Consolidated Laws - Penal Law, Part 3, Title P (Chapter 40) - Article 265 - Firearms And Other Dangerous Weapons (Link not direct, follow full name to reach section)

    New York State - Consolidated Laws - Penal Law, Part 4, Title W (Chapter 40) - Article 400 - Licensing And Other Provisions Relating To Firearms (Link not direct, follow full name to reach section)

    Federal - United States

    United States Code - Title 18 (Crimes And Criminal Procedure) - Part 1 (Crimes) - Chapter 44: Firearms

    United States Code - Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code) - Subtitle E (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Certain Other Excise Taxes) - Chapter 53: Machine Guns, Destructive Devices, and Certain Other Firearms

    FAQ:

    I'm visiting NYC, can I shoot a friend's pistol or rent one?
    No, you need to have a valid NYC pistol license to even touch a pistol. However, you can shoot .22lr rifle or 9mm rifles without a license. There is only one range in Manhattan that has rentals, The West Side Pistol & Rifle Range: www.westsidepistolrange.com

    I have a pistol permit from NY State, but not New York City (5 Boroughs). Can I still shoot a pistol in New York City?
    No. New York City does not honor NY State Licenses.

    What if I have a valid NY State CCW license, then can I carry or shoot a pistol in New York City?
    No. NYPD is very particular on this. Only New York City permits and CCW licenses are valid in NYC's 5 boroughs. Anything issued outside NYC by NY State is NOT valid in NYC. There have been warnings posted that NYPD will revoke your license, confiscate your guns, as well as possible 3 years jail time for illegal possession of a firearm in New York City.

    Also note NYC pistol licenses are NOT valid outside of NYC. Many organizations highly recommend that NYC license holders get the Hunting Authorization card (green card) that lets you take your firearm outside of the city to authorized ranges and hunting grounds in NY State. The green card is imprinted and even states that the premise license is now valid for NY State and you are allowed to transport it out of NY City. Request it from 1PP when you get your permit.

    However, if you leave the state to a state you can shoot in (ie: PA) via "safe transport" method (uninterrupted travel) then you should be fine. As an extra precaution, many have encouraged that NYC gun owners to additionally get non-resident CCW license that's honored in multiple states which will allow you to posses that firearm in that state. The most popular are Florida and Utah which are good for 28 states (except a few states such as Michigan which requires resident only). CT also offers non-resident CCW permits if you have a valid CCW permit from another state.
    Last edited by MueveloNYC; 04-17-2013 at 02:41 AM.
    -[ MueveloNYC's P2000/sk FAQ ]- . . MNYC's NYC Gun FAQ
    USPc vs. P2000sk Range Report || Система Martial Arts Trained
    Vids: ABCNews: Gun Control Myths, Part2 . 30 Days: Gun Nation
    NRA Life Member, FL&CT CCW, USPc, M1 Super90, R700p LTR TWS

    Range Courtesy: (watch your brass!)


  2. #2
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    What is the process of getting a handgun license in NYC?
    1. Download and fill out the application (links and NYPD licensing info is listed at the top of this page)
    2. Get the necessary reference forms (these people have to know you for 7+ years and have it notarized, stating they knew you for 7+ years)
    EDIT: User "Brooklyn" noticed that this is no longer documented on the PDF version of the app. After calling NYPD, they confirmed you need 3 references from people who know you for 2 years or more as explained by his post here

    notarizations, photos, utility bill, passport, etc. required for the full app, and get the 2 money orders (NOTE: NYPD now takes credit cards as of Nov. 2008!) for the application $340 and fingerprint fee which is roughly $95. Consult the NYPD link for the exact fees. NOTE: If you have roomates or are married/living with an SO, they have to have a signed affidavit notarized stating that "I have no objection with <name here> owning a firearm in our dwelling" or something of that nature. This is important that is says that there is "no objection" and a reference to a gun in your dwelling, home, apartment, residence, etc. If these words do not appear, your license can be delayed/denied (same goes for the character references in declaring time length of the relationship).
    3. Go to 1 Police Plaza (1PP) and submit the app in person. This involves live fingerprinting.
    4. Rougly 6 months later you'll be called back to 1PP for an in person interview, and will be live fingerprinted again.
    5. A few months later you'll get a letter notifiying you of your acceptance/denial
    6. Go back to 1PP and pick up a purchase order for your first firearm
    7. Purchase your firearm from an authorized FFL within 60 days. Make sure you fill out the BATFE form and get a receipt and have the FFL fill out the purchase order
    8. Bring the receipt, purchase order, and your firearm (unloaded, trigger locked, no mag in gun, no ammo on your person, in a locked case) to 1PP. Let the checkpoint know you are carrying a firearm (and let them know it's unloaded and double locked, no ammo). Then go for your gun inspection.
    9. You will be inspected, and the serial # recorded. They will then take your picture, put the gun's make, caliber and serial # on the gun license and hand it to you. Make sure you verify that the serial # is correct! If your gun doesn't match the serial # even if it's a typo, you can be arrested!
    10. The process is fairly variable. Anywhere from 6 months to 18 months.

    Keep in mind that gun licenses in NYC are much like a lease. Technically, you do not own your guns. NYPD does. If for any reason NYPD finds reason to rescind your license (or you let it lapse), they take possession of all your firearms, even if you rightfully paid for them. Keep this in mind.

    Note: The premise license is only valid in the NYC 5 boroughs for home and range use only. It's not valid for NY State. Request a hunting endorsement card when you get your permit. It's a green card that's imprinted with a seal. On it it says, the person name on the card with a valid premise license is now legally allowed to transport his firearm throughout NY State.

    This is the text on this card:
    Police Department - City of N.Y.
    Hunting Authorization

    This amendment to the Premise pistol license issue to the above licensee, provides for the transport of the firearm(s) indicated on said license, within New York State while unloaded and in a locked container. It shall further authorize the carry of a loaded firearm on the person, while afield, actively engaged in such lawful hunting as is authorized pursuant to the New York State Fish and Wildlife Law.
    Note the hours of operation: (Mon - Fri)
    Licensing: 9AM-4PM (note that people have reported to get there before 2PM since after 2PM will be too late to process you)
    Purchase Order pick up: 9AM - noon
    Gun inspection: noon-2PM
    Fingerprinting: 9AM-3PM

    Process for buying a new gun:
    1. Call up NYPD's licensing division, and request a purchase order form
    2. You'll receive it in the mail in about a week. Fill out the gun make, model, caliber, and barrel length, reason for purchase, and your handgun license info. Mail it back.
    3. In about 6-9 weeks, you'll get a form in the mail telling you to come to 1PP to pick up your purchase order between 9AM-noon.
    4. Take your purchase order to a gun dealer/FFL and buy a gun in 60 days. Make sure they fill out the purchase order, BATFE forms, and give you a receipt!
    5. Take the purchase order filled out with the receipt, and within 72 hours of buying the firearm, you HAVE to go to 1PP for gun inspection (failure to do so within 72 hours can result in the revocation of your license and firearms). Gun inspections are only from Noon until 2PM, M-F. Make sure the gun is trigger locked, unloaded, no mag in the gun, in a locked case, and bring no ammo.

    Procedure for selling a firearm:
    Selling to a NY/NYC FFL:
    1. Call 1PP and notify your intent of sale and to whom
    2. Sell to the FFL, and take your bill of sale and to go 1PP to get the gun removed from your license that day (do not take your time on this!)
    Selling privately to another NYC gun license owner:
    1. Both buyer/seller call 1PP to notify intent of purchase/sale
    2. Make sure the other license owner has obtained the purchase order form from NYPD (if they haven't, it's a 6-9 week process!)
    3. Photocopy the back and front of each others pistol license (so you have a copy of the other person's ID when submitting to NYPD)
    4. Prepare a bill of sale, notarized, with both your and the buyers signatures, name and address as they appear on your license on this billl of sale, with the gun, make, model, caliber, barrel length (make it closely as the original bill of sale's info). Make sure both the buyer/seller has this information.
    5. On the same day, both parties go to 1PP with the photocopied ID and bill of sale to have their pistol licenses updated.

    Because all guns are registered in NYC you simply cannot mail your firearm to an out of state FFL. Also you must receive your gun from a NY FFL if purchased out of state.
    Lookup FFL's Validity here: https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck

    What about Rifle licenses?
    1. Fill out the rifle application at the bottom of the page HERE
    2. Even if you are a pistol license holder, you will have to fill out everything and get re-fingerprinted
    3. Go to the Kew Gardens location and submit the app in person
    4. 3-6 months you will get notice to pick up your license, go pick it up in person (this is also valid for NY State as outside of NYC doesn't require a license for long barrels, but requires registration).
    5. Rifles and other long barrels also need to be registered, but with the Kew Gardens office, not 1PP. They will give you registration forms when you get your license. Mail this (make sure you retain your copy of this form) with a copy of your bill of sale with a self-addressed return envelope to:
    Rifle/Shotgun Section
    License Division
    NYC Police Dept.
    120-55 Queens Blvd.
    Kew Gardens, NY 11424

    Hunters Education Card:
    NY and almost all states in the country require a card that proves that you took a hunter's education class. Info on hunters education class are on NY's Dept. of Environmental Conservation here:
    http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/7860.html
    Check out the class links on that site and take a class... why? Here's WHY!
    All courses are free. New York's Sportsman Education Programs are supported in part by Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration, funded by your purchases of hunting equipment. Additional funding comes from sales of hunting and trapping licenses. Hunters and trappers pay for Sportsman Education and wildlife conservation.
    What about banned rifles/shotguns that are considered assault weapons?
    There's a 2 criteria list that would get it banned. On the rifle/shotgun licenses are a few examples. But NYPD has a phone # to direct questions if you want to know a particular gun is banned: (718) 520-9300, this is the phone # listed on the Shotgun/Rifle application.

    The shotgun rule basically mirrors 922R code: (although NYC adds a few more restrictions)
    http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/tit...hapter44_.html

    Summary here:
    http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

    Can I have rifles/shotguns outside of NYC in my vacation home outside of the 5-boroughs but within NY State?
    If you go to the Rifle section of NYPD's website, then click the PDF for the application: http://home2.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/...ormation.shtml

    In that PDF under "Registering Rifles and Shotguns" it says:

    (f) If the permit holder has a gun stored in a residence outside of New York City and wishes
    to register it in New York City, he or she must submit a notarized letter listing the make,
    model and serial number of the gun and the address where it was stored. The letter must
    also indicate how the firearm was originally obtained. The permit holder must also
    complete a registration form and submit it.
    While it's not explicit, this could be interpreted as yes it is possible, as NY State does not require a license nor registration, only NYC 5 boroughs does. NOTE: Handguns/pistols must stay at your residence as they are registered there. If your rifle/shotgun is registered to your NYC residence, it must be stored there as well.

  3. #3
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    What are NY's Laws on use of Deadly Force?
    Note: This is a very gray area of the law - always use caution and only resort to deadly force if your life is in immediate jeopardy.

    N.Y. Penal Law 35.15.1:
    35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
    1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use
    physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she
    reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself, herself or a
    third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or
    imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
    (a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor with intent to
    cause physical injury to another person; or
    (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case the
    use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if the actor has
    withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such
    withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing
    the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical
    force; or
    (c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by
    agreement not specifically authorized by law.
    2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
    under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
    (a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
    about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
    actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
    complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
    necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
    duty to retreat if he or she is:
    (i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
    (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
    officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to
    section 35.30; or
    (b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
    or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
    sexual act or robbery; or
    (c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
    or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
    the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
    section 35.20.

    N.Y. Penal Law 35.20:

    35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary.
    1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he or
    she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate
    what he or she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted
    commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises.
    Such person may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly
    physical force, which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary for
    such purpose, and may use deadly physical force if he or she reasonably
    believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or
    attempted commission of arson.
    2. A person in possession or control of any premises, or a person
    licensed or privileged to be thereon or therein, may use physical force
    upon another person when he or she reasonably believes such to be
    necessary to prevent or terminate what he or she reasonably believes to
    be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a
    criminal trespass upon such premises. Such person may use any degree of
    physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he or she
    reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and may use deadly
    physical force in order to prevent or terminate the commission or
    attempted commission of arson, as prescribed in subdivision one, or in
    the course of a burglary or attempted burglary, as prescribed in
    subdivision three.
    3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to
    be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that
    another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such
    dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other
    person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to
    prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.
    4. As used in this section, the following terms have the following
    meanings:
    (a) The terms "premises," "building" and "dwelling" have the meanings
    prescribed in section 140.00;
    (b) Persons "licensed or privileged" to be in buildings or upon other
    premises include, but are not limited to:
    (i) police officers or peace officers acting in the performance of
    their duties; and
    (ii) security personnel or employees of nuclear powered electric
    generating facilities located within the state who are employed as part
    of any security plan approved by the federal operating license agencies
    acting in the performance of their duties at such generating facilities.
    For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "nuclear powered electric
    generating facility" shall mean a facility that generates electricity
    using nuclear power for sale, directly or indirectly, to the public,
    including the land upon which the facility is located and the safety and
    security zones as defined under federal regulations.
    Note that if defending yourself from an attack or burglary, if you retreated to your home safely - stay there and call the police. Do not escalate the situation by leaving your home and going after the aggressor. Such was the case of The People vs. Hernandez, who was found guilty of manslaughter since he shot him in the "common area" after he had safely retreated to his home (within his 4 walls), after being attacked, where he went back to confront the aggressor with a gun and shot him. The link below also provides direct links to the NY Penal laws on use of deadly force and cites other recent cases, so it's a good reference.

    People Vs. Jose Hernandez:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I02_0075.htm

    Duty to Retreat:
    NY State requires duty to retreat whenever possible, EXCEPT in one's own dwelling. (35.15.2(a) - listed above) - This does not give you to right to shoot anyone in your home! It is only of a last resort if you are under immediate danger/duress

    Note that there was a case People vs. Aiken, where a man tried to enter a person's home. The owner shot him in the apt. doorway that separated his apartment and the hallway. Because the actual doorway was considered not his dwelling, being outside the walls of his apt. He was convicted of manslaughter.

    http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/gra...-1/delpozo.stj
    In People v. Aiken, the New York Court of Appeals held unanimously that a person standing in his apartment doorway has a duty to retreat inside before using deadly force in self-defense. History supports the notion that the dwelling exception to the retreat rule is meant to prevent people from having to flee their homes in times of danger. Hence, both precedent and common sense dictate that "requiring a person standing in the doorway to step inside the apartment to avoid a violent encounter is not the equivalent of mandating retreat from one's home."

    The dwelling exemption across all retreat jurisdictions should extend only to inhabited physical structures and completely enclosed appurtenances, such as porches and terraces. This workable rule allows fact finders to focus less on whether something is or is not a dwelling on a case-by-case basis, and more on the "central question [of] whether defendant reasonably believed she was about to suffer death or serious physical injury." The prerequisite that defensive force, to be justified, appear necessary makes retreat a lesser included of this principle. Thus, an exemption from retreat for a homeowner who barely discerns danger to his person or property, and yet chooses to escalate hostilities, may be a free pass for murder.
    Court summary of this case is available here:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I05_0039.htm

    So as you can see, use of deadly force can still result in conviction, so only use it as an absolute last resort. (kick, push, ram the person out of your dwelling if you have to - only use deadly force if you have no choice...). The statute says it's justifiable in one's dwelling to prevent a burglary, but remember - you have a good chance of it going to court where that burden of proof will be on you if you shot someone.

    Again, I stress that this is not legal advice, nor is this information to be construed as condoning/supporting/promoting use of deadly force. This is presenting some of the facts as they are. It is ultimately up to you to make your own conclusions, research, and make your own decisions on your own legal council or policy.

    Does NY Have Castle Doctrine?
    No. However, note the above laws on use of deadly force in a dwelling - however it's restricted to your dwelling (ie: within your walls and not in any common space such as the doorway) and a burglary is in progress. There have been many cases of deadly force being used in those cases of home invasions, however, almost all went to a grand jury for a review. Again, express extreme restraint in using deadly force and only resort to it only in the absolute need where there is literally no other option.

    NY Self-Defense Blog:
    http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefe...labels/NY.html

  4. #4
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    New York City (5 Boroughs Ranges) * = means MueveloNYC is a member here
    Pistol:
    Westside Rifle & Pistol Range* (.22lr to .45ACP pistols and rifles, 50' indoor, offers rentals, Open to Public - appointment required) - Flatiron District Manhattan: www.westsidepistolrange.com
    Update: March 2008 - Good news, Westside range is now able to rent rifles to the public again. However, you will have to pass an NICS check before being able to handle a firearm. So if you're a felon, sorry, you won't be able to fire a firearm in NYC.[/url]

    Bayridge Rod & Gun Club (indoor pistol 75', Private Membership Range) - Brooklyn: http://www.gunsports.com

    Shotgun (Trap):
    Staten Island Sportsman Club* - (5 trap houses, $6 for 25 clays, $6 for 25 rounds, you need to own your own shotgun, eyes, ears, open to public): http://www.sitrap.org/

    Rifle:
    Colonial Rod & Gun Club (Private Membership Range) - Staten Island (200 yard rifle, 75 yard pistol, reactive targets, outdoor): http://www.colonialrifleandpistolclub.com

    Cherry Ridge* - NJ (Official NRA Range, ANJRPC, Private Membership Range but easy to become a member, all outdoor, pistol, rifle 50-300 yards, shotgun, trap, silhoutte reactive target range, archery): http://www.anjrpc.org/cherry_ridge.htm

    #########################


    I'm under 21, can I apply for a pistol license?
    No. You have to be 21.

    How many guns am I allowed to own?
    NYPD allows you to have 4 guns in the home. Upon purchasing the 5th firearm, you must prove you have a gun safe for them, as well as be subject to spot inspections by NYPD. This is a time consuming process and only occurs during the day on weekdays. If you are working during the day, this will prove a huge inconvenience (so consider 4 the magic #). There's a hard limit of no more than X guns (note - researching the exact source of the exact number and will fill this in so I can cite it)

    What's the FDNY 200 round rule?
    FDNY fire codes state that you can only have 200 rounds of ammunition max in your home in NYC. Not 200 rounds of each caliber, it's 200 total - period.

    Can I own multiple calibers of bullets?
    Only if you own a gun of that caliber. NYC is expecting that you only buy ammunition from an FFL who is only allowed to sell you ammunition for the calibers of guns listed on your license. Technically, owning bullets of calibers other than the ones for guns you own is considered illegal.

    How come I can't buy ammo in the mail to ship to NYC?
    On the books, NYC states you can only buy ammunition from an FFL, and the FFL must keep records of your NYC gun license as validation. Most online dealers are not willing to keep such records as it's a hassle. Only FFL's are allowed to receive ammo in the mail and sell ammo in NY City. This is why almost all shippers won't ship ammo to NYC. They will ship to other locations in NY State. You can buy ammo in person outside of NY City, just keep in mind to adhere to the FDNY max 200 round rule in your home.

    What's the magazine cap in NYC?
    No more than 10 rounds for pistols. Shotguns/rifles cannot have a capacity more than 5 rounds.

    Can I own something if they are Pre-Ban?
    In NYC (5 boroughs) no. Posession is a felony and can result in 3 years prison and permanent revocation of gun ownership and your firearms. The burden of proof is on the owner in posession of the mag to have appropriate documentation or proof that they are preban. (basically you're guilty until proven innocent) Assault weapons, class III arms, prior and post ban are prohibited.

    Can I own a USP/c Tactical or Mark 23?
    Yes, but it must have the thread protector for the threaded barrel. You must have this on the gun at all times.

    So if I own that, can I own a flash hider or suppressor?
    No - anything that goes on a threaded barrel is illegal.

    What are new gun requirements in NY/NYC?
    New guns for sale in NY/NYC must have a capacity of no more than 10 rounds, and must come with a sealed envelope of a fired casing to be submitted by the NYC FFL to NYPD's ballistics database. Used guns do not need this case.
    Some pistols, such as the FN Five-seveN are banned.

    Can I bring my guns into NJ and shoot at a range in NJ?
    EDIT: Please read this as a recent court ruling has changed the statement below...

    Questionable: However, many posts from packing.org (when it was around) highly recommended that you get a Purchaser's ID card for non-resident. This allows NJ Police and state troopers to have a confirmed ID on your as "safe" in the event you are pulled over with firearms in your car. The card is also required to purchase handgun ammo in NJ, which you'll probably want to buy at the range too. Remember to transport the firearms in your vehicle the same way it is required in NYC. Do not bring hollowpoint ammo into NJ (it's just not worth the trouble/harassment). If you must bring them (ie: if you're using Federal Gold Medal match ammo), print out this from the NJ State Police website and bring it with you as a precaution:
    http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

    Also when transporting to NJ print this as well:
    http://www.nj.gov/njsp/about/fire_trans.html

    It's come to my attention that one should consider getting an FID card after a few incidents were reported. Having an FID card at least gives NJ State/Local Police some reference of who you are, and a level of confidence where you are authorized to be in possession of firearms (only to and from the range with no diversions inbetween). Print out the State Police safe transportation of firearms, your FID card, and range membership card with you.

    A fillable PDF form for the FID is available here:
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf...ms/sts-033.pdf

    You will also need to fill out and bring the SP66 (Consent for Mental Health Records Search) with you:
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf...rms/sp-066.pdf

    Additional forms for reference are available here:
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/forms.html

    Take this with you when you go to the State Trooper station. The closest one to Manhattan that will service FID requests is in Totowa, NJ (requires a drive out to there):
    Totowa Sub-Station
    250 Minisink Road
    Totowa, N.J. 07512
    (973) 785-9419

    Direct Contact: Detective Long (confirmed contact as of July 2008) to schedule an appointment for the FID and fingerprinting. Make sure to inquire how much in Money Orders / Cashiers check to bring as well.
    (973) 785-9412, ext. 4328

    To find other locations that can service you, contact the NJ State Trooper HQ, Firearms Unit at: (609) 882-2000, ext 6619

    From:
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/faq.html#firearms
    Q: How do you obtain a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card?
    A: You must apply at your local police department. If you do not have a local police department or you are an out of state resident, you must apply at the nearest New Jersey State Police station (excluding toll roads, stations on the New Jersey Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway).

    For any further information outlining specific requirements, contact your local police department or nearest New Jersey State Police station.
    Police Stations map:
    http://www.nj.gov/njsp/divorg/operat...dstations.html

    More detailed info available from here:
    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf...tle13-ch54.pdf
    Linked from: http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html

    From the NRA:
    It is unlawful to knowingly possess any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a Permit to Carry, and it is unlawful to knowingly possess any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID), however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:
    1. To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.
    2. To carry any firearm unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, from one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.
    3. To transport such firearms as necessary for target practice, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, by a member of a gun club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in going to or from a place of target practice, provided the club has filed a copy of its charter with the Superintendent of State Police and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent.
    4. To transport any firearm, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, while traveling:
    a. Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided such person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license.
    b. Directly to or from any target range or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions.

  5. #5
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    Additional NYC Specific Points:

    To search NY and NYC codes directly, input the key word or code # for the law in the Legislature's search database here:
    http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS

    Also available is this listing on the NY Admin firearms code:
    http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm

    Bill A3447 in 2008 (banning frangible ammo) while passing the NY Assembly, did not pass the rest of the State Legislature. Thanks to the NRA for pointing this out as the NY Assembly's website doesn't show that it didn't pass later on To date there is no legislation in the NYC Admin code banning frangible ammo.

    As of 2006, painted/colored guns are banned in NYC. Nassau County also has a specific law banning guns that are not standard gun colors (black, metal, blued, wood, olive drab, tan, silver/grey). NY law posted here:
    http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/textf...TOKEN=77217749

    Is is legal to reload my own ammunition in NY City?
    No. Loose powder is a controlled dangerous substance in NYC and requires a license (similar to how Propane tanks in Manhattan require one).
    27-4040 Manufacturing; loading. It shall be unlawful to manufacture, or load ammunition by power machinery. A special permit may be issued to a person holding a permit for the storage and sale of ammunition, authorizing the loading of small arms ammunition by hand.
    Can I buy a bullet proof vest or body armor?
    No, possession is a felony for all of NY State unless you are law enforcement.

    Detailed info on the 200 Round rule
    27-4041 Storage and sale. a. Permit. It shall be unlawful to store,
    sell or offer for sale any ammunition in excess of two hundred small arm
    cartridges without a permit.
    b. Blanks for artillery. Holders of permits issued under this section
    may store a limited number of blank shells or cartridges to be used in
    cannon for saluting purposes; the number to be so stored shall be fixed
    by the commissioner in each case, and shall be stated in the permit.
    c. Quantities. The commissioner may fix the maximum quantity of
    ammunition to be stored in any premises for which a permit is applied,
    and the quantity so fixed shall be stated in the permit; but no permit
    shall be issued for the storage of ammunition in quantities greater than
    the following:
    300,000 loaded shells containing shot, for shotguns not
    exceeding No. 8 gauge;
    2,500,000 cartridges for pistols;
    500,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber not larger than
    .45 of an inch;
    10,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber not larger than
    .50 of an inch;
    5,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber between .50 of an
    inch and .58 of an inch;
    5,000 blank cartridges of a caliber not larger than .45 of
    an inch;
    3,000,000 primers for central fire ammunition;
    6,000,000 percussion caps, or primers, without anvils.
    d. Restriction. No permit for the storage and sale of ammunition in
    excess of two hundred small arms cartridges shall be issued for any
    premises:
    1. Where the building does not comply with the requirements of the
    building code regulating high hazard occupancies for buildings erected
    after the sixth day of December, nineteen hundred sixty-eight; or where
    a building or building section erected prior thereto is not fully
    equipped with an approved automatic sprinkler system; or where the
    building is occupied as a multiple dwelling, school, theatre or other
    place of public amusement or assembly, except armories of the armed
    forces;
    2. Which are used as a drug store, paint store, pawn shop or
    stationery store;
    3. Where cigars, cigarettes or tobaccos are stored or kept for sale;
    4. Where liquors are sold;
    5. Where other materials of a highly flammable nature are
    manufactured, stored or kept for sale, but this restriction shall not
    apply to a person duly authorized to keep and sell gunpowder;
    6. Where fireworks are manufactured, stored or sold.
    e. Theatrical use. No permit shall be issued for the use of blank
    cartridges, except in connection with performances in duly authorized
    theatres or places of public amusement, or for saluting purposes, as
    provided in subdivision b of this section.
    f. Window displays. It shall be unlawful for the holder of a permit
    for the storage and sale of ammunition to store or exhibit in the
    windows or doors of the premises covered by the permit any cartridge or
    shells containing explosives.
    Is the Benelli M4 shotgun legal to own in NYC if you have the fixed stock (no pistol grip)?
    From our analysis so far it seems like it is not legal. The post-ban M1 Super 90's with a non-pistol (fixed) stock with a round capacity of 3+1 rounds are legal as long as they are 16" or longer barrel.

    Is the GSG-5/p (.22lr MP5 clone) allowed in NY?
    No. GSG-5 still counts as an assualt weapon since mag capacity exceeds 5 round for a rifle and has pistol grip semi auto configuration. The GSG-5p Pistol is also banned since which it has a 10 round mag capacity, the magazine protrudes outside of the grip (ie: the magazine isn't inside the pistol grip).

    90 Day wait rule applies for both pistol and rifle/shotgun. However, neither licensing division will keep tabs on the other on your status. It is up to you to make sure you buy at 90 day intervals (they can audit from BATFE forms). The wording of the law states any firearm
    3. Section 10-302.1 of the administrative code of the city of New York, as added by local law number 9 for the year 2005, is amended to read as follows:

    10-302.1 Preventing the diversion of firearms, rifles and shotguns to criminals. a. No dealer in firearms and no dealer in rifles and shotguns shall: (i) sell or otherwise dispose of more than one firearm or more than one rifle or shotgun to any individual as part of the same sales transaction; or (ii) sell or otherwise dispose of a rifle or shotgun to any individual if the dealer knows or should know that such individual has purchased a [firearm,] rifle or shotgun within the prior ninety days, or (iii) sell or otherwise dispose of a firearm to any individual if the dealer knows or should know that such individual has purchased a firearm within the prior ninety days.

    b. No person shall acquire a firearm if such person has acquired a firearm within the previous ninety days. No person shall acquire a rifle or shotgun if such person has acquired a rifle or shotgun within the previous ninety days. For purposes of this subdivision when a firearm, rifle or shotgun is acquired by a corporation, partnership, or other entity, it shall be considered to have been acquired by each natural person who is an officer, director or other principal of such entity, unless the firearm, rifle or shotgun is acquired on behalf of such entity by a person who is licensed by the commissioner as gun custodian or special gun custodian, or acquired on behalf of an organization possessing an organization registration certificate, as those terms are used in title thirty-eight of the rules of the city of New York.
    Is it legal to own a pre-ban high capacity magazine (more than 10 rounds) in NYC?
    No. Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D felony under NYS Penal Law 265.02. Basically ANY high cap mag is banned, as the law makes no clause of pre-1994 exemption.

    NYS Penal Law 265.02

    S 265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third
    degree when:
    (1) He commits the crime of criminal possession of a weapon in the
    fourth degree as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five of
    section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime; or
    (2) He possesses any explosive or incendiary bomb, bombshell, firearm
    silencer, machine-gun or any other firearm or weapon simulating a
    machine-gun and which is adaptable for such use; or
    (3) He knowingly has in his possession a machine-gun, firearm, rifle
    or shotgun which has been defaced for the purpose of concealment or
    prevention of the detection of a crime or misrepresenting the identity
    of such machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun; or
    (4) Such person possesses any loaded firearm. Such possession shall
    not, except as provided in subdivision one or seven, constitute a
    violation of this section if such possession takes place in such
    person`s home or place of business; or
    (5) (i) Such person possesses twenty or more firearms; or (ii) such
    person possesses a firearm and has been previously convicted of a felony
    or a class A misdemeanor defined in this chapter within the five years
    immediately preceding the commission of the offense and such possession
    did not take place in the person`s home or place of business; or
    (6) Such person knowingly possesses any disguised gun; or
    (7) Such person possesses an assault weapon; or
    (8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

  6. #6
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    Educational info: This section gives articles and videos for learning about the sport of shooting and the reasons why one should own firearms. These views aren't necessarily the same views as those here on HKpro.com or myself (nor did we make these articles/videos), they are simply here for extra education so that you may form your own opinion based on these arguments.

    Owning a gun for self-defense is affirmed by DC vs. Heller, but there are now legal rulings that push the issue that one should provide your own method of self-defense. In the court ruling of Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 the ruling has stated that the police and law enforcement do not have to duty nor legal liability to protect you if your life is in danger. This ultimately means that self-defense is ultimately up to oneself.

    Other similar rulings:
    Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005)
    Barillari v. City of Milwaukee 533 N.W.2d 759
    Bowers v. DeVito 686 F.2d 616
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services 489 U.S. 189
    Ford v. Town of Grafton 693 N.E.2d 1047
    Warren v. District of Columbia 444 A.2d 1 -- "...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..."
    Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806
    Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 -- "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
    Zeling v. County of Los Angeles, 02 S.O.S. 2400

    UK Article cites despite UK's gun ban, gun violence no less than the USA
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ay-Tories.html

    NYC Woman describes her path from Liberal to an NYC Gun owner (NY Magazine):
    http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/crimelaw/features/4320/

    ABC News: Gun Myths (2003 Airing)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9RN_iSKtg

    ABC News: Gun Myths, Update Version (2007 Airing)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YTM_eAWnQ

    30 Days - Gun Nation: Anti-gun person spends 30 days living with a pro-gun household
    http://www.hulu.com/watch/25712/30-days-gun-nation

    A student with a CCW license saves his 10 friends from being raped and executed:
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19365762/detail.html

    Exactly what an "assault rifle" is. (Many, including the media, are confused):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0

    If you're on youtube, do a search for "Penn & Teller Gun" for their episode of "Bullshit!: Gun Control" which makes great arguments as well. The link keeps changing so search method is the best way to do it.

    A woman who was raped, shoots the rapist, a career criminal, who broke into her house again 5 days later. She called 911, but they didn't arrive until he already broke through the door:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg

    A great article from a woman who explains why she wants to carry:
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspec...icle883277.ece

    Also one should not forget the Watts Riots, LA Riots, NYC Blackout of 1977, Katrina, and Hurricane Ike. Looters have taken to the streets and you can only defend yourself. Land line phones won't work and there is no electricity to power cell phone towers. Even during the blackout of 2003 in NYC, phones and cell phones did not work.

    This MSNBC also explains how gun sales spike during uncertain times and after situations where people realize a gun was needed:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27393833

    ABC News has an interesting video about how homeowners have to defend their homes from looters: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...her&id=6390196

    Appalachian School of Law incident (2002): Armed students stop gunman with their own legally owned personal firearms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...f_Law_shooting

    Fox's counterargument against the flawed experiment ABC's 20/20: "If I only had a gun":
    http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/20...riment_rigged/

    Articles:
    NYTimes Article with a Harvard Study on how higher gun ownership results in less murders worldwide, especially in Europe, and 1/2 of American households now own guns:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/we...anted=1&ref=us
    There is some evidence, Professor Volokh said, that denying guns to people who might use them in self-defense, usually merely by brandishing them, tends to increase crime rates. There is also evidence that the possibility of confronting a victim with a gun deters some criminals.

    In addition, criminals are the people least likely to obey gun control laws, meaning that the laws probably have a disproportionate impact on law-abiding individuals. "For the typical gun control law," Professor Volokh said, "you’ll have very little positive effect but a possible negative effect."
    Wall St. Journal Article: Gun laws aren't effective, but severe sentencing for gun-related crimes are a deterrant:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217...googlenews_wsj

    NY gun database has yet to lead to prosecution (AP Newswire):
    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=4387163

    FBI Crime Statistics show murder at 40 year low, even with gun ownership at an all time high:
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4181
    In 2007, as in years past, Right-to-Carry states had lower violent crime rates, on average, compared to the rest of the country with total violent crime lower by 24 percent, murder by 28 percent, robbery by 50 percent, and aggravated assault by 11 percent.
    Gallup Poll shows that 73% of Americans support the 2nd Amendment:
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=3741
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/16/guns.poll/

    ABC News Article on Gun Ownership:
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/...nd-the-co.html
    Per our most recent ABC/Post poll, 42 percent of Americans have a gun in the household, a number that’s been stable in recent years. Twenty-five percent have a handgun at home, 23 percent a shotgun, 27 percent a rifle.
    House Representative Dr. Suzanna Gratia-Hupp's Congressional Statement on guns (she does not hunt nor is a gun enthusiast, but her parents were gunned down in front of her at a restaurant where carry concealed was not allowed):
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...675&pr=goog-sl

    Editorial Cartoon Explaining how Criminals think of gun laws:


    More Satire (although true!):


    Satire Video from FoxNews: Gun Free Zones
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

    Georgia crime rate plummets in wake of gun law: (2 years of statistics)
    http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlan...ake-of-gun-law

    Satire Video: Criminals for Gun Control
    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L3kMuN8sjk
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krq34URvk6s

    Satire Video: Differece between Bullets and Cartridges
    http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/b...only-stronger/

    The argument of complying with aggressor demands (ie: the it's not worth your life argument) no longer works. Even law enforcement have changed tactics as most aggressors now intend to kill and have no regards to their own life:
    http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story...0-947534a6de3c

    Yes guns are also used in Olympic sports:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/sp...=1&oref=slogin

    China has a complete totalitarian ban on guns, yet criminals get their hands on them:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394012224530655.html

    Even the NY Times defended it's own building with Gatling guns. Article: "A Scare for Rioters"
    http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...659C94699ED7CF
    (Illustrates clearly of how they once understood that guns are a deterrent for crime)

    Being ignorant is not an excuse: Citibank cancels merchant account despite FFL to FFL legal transfer!
    http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704

    NY Gun owner in Inwood, Long Island (not NYC) owns an semi-auto SAR-1 (AK-47 clone) opens up fire on armed home invaders:
    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/cr...,1103935.story

    UK Article with an interesting view of how the nation of India allowed people to be armed, they could've prevented the Mumbai attacks:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle5299010.ece

    UK Citizens remorseful about being apathetic on letting laws encroach their rights all the way to an outright ban:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

    Fox News John Lott's Book has lots of research and cases, and discusses the law:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0226493644

    Other Gun's used in self-defense feeds:
    http://claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html
    http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/search...efensiveGunUse
    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/opsd/default.asp

    Why Swiss has the lowest crime rate:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g

  7. #7
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    Join Date : Apr 2008
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    I'm waiting on my NYC Premises Permit. Have you traveled the state with this? Any problems? I want to apply for Florida CCW and was wondering if I would be able to leave NYC with a handgun.

  8. #8
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    #### Famous Quotes: #########
    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms .... disarm only
    those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
    Such laws make things worse for the assaulted
    and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage
    than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be
    attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

    "The constitutions of most of our states [and of the United States] assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of the press." -Thomas Jefferson

    "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man
    than that which protects the rights of conscience
    against the enterprises from civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

    "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent
    the government from wasting the labors of the people
    under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

    "The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize congress
    to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable
    citizens .... from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams

    "Only an armed people can be truly free.
    Only an unarmed people can ever be enslaved." - Aristotle

    "A government that is big enough to give you all you want
    is big enough to take it all away." - Barry Goldwater

    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
    it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government
    -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." - George Bernard Shaw

    “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.”
    --- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

    “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
    --- Tench Coxe, "Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution," in the Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    --- Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

    "The great object is that every man be armed . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun."
    --- Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.

    "The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    --- James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. "
    --- Thomas Jefferson

    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    --- Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" -Admiral Itsoroku Yamamoto (explaining why Japan decided against an invasion of the US in WWII)

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look
    upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent... The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Justice Louis Brandeis

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    Thanks for the reply. I sort of understood about this "gray area". As a matter of fact I even asked about it an my interview. So traveling to PA to shoot has not been a problem for you? Are not only "authorizied ranges" in NYC allowed? Sorry for all this newbe stuff just trying to see what guys before me have dealt with.

  10. #10
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    Ironchef details his process on change of address for the pistol permits:

    Quote Originally Posted by ironchef View Post
    Like RKBA, I also recently moved and MueveloNYC asked that I post my own experience with the change of address documentation at 1PP and at Kew Gardens. Please be aware this is how my experience worked out. Your mileage may vary and please check the laws to see if anything I missed may apply. This is not the end all be all type guide but just to clarify somethings and perhaps help prep fellow NYC members before dealing with the bureaucrecy. I cannot and will not be held liable for any negative experience you may encounter based on this post.

    If you move or change jobs and hold a pistol and/or rifle shotgun permit, you will need to notify NYPD. This is especially so for the address change

    1. Check to see what local police precinct covers your new address. For me, I only moved five blocks but I checked anyways and the police precinct remained the same.

    2. Obtain the address change form from pistol licensing and rifle/shotgun licensing. Note that the pistol form needs to be notarized. The rifle/shotgun form does not but it helps just in case. I believe you can get either form off the NYPD website, or if you call them to mail it to you, or you go to each respective location and pick up a form. Paperwork must be submitted in person at each respective licensing location (1PP and Kew Gardens).

    3. NYPD requires that you notify them within 10 days of the change of address. How this is interpreted, I am unsure. Obviously, the sooner you do it the better. You need to allot time to get certain documentation in place and my own experience seemed to work out best for me and I'll go further into detail.

    4. I signed the lease for my new apt. in the beginning of October 2009. However my old lease did not expire till the end of October 2009 and my rent for both locations were paid. That left my roughly 3 1/2 weeks to move out and also get things done for my licenses. This worked out for me as I still resided at the old location which my guns were registered under and also the address on my licenses.

    5. First thing I did was change one of my utilities over to the new address as it is considered documented proof you've moved. In fact, Kew Gardens specifically asks for a utility bill. Anything else like a credit card bill would need a copy of the lease to accompany it. Since I have a home phone, that is what I changed over. I know nowadays a lot of people do not bother or have it tied to their cable or Internet service. I suggest picking out what you don't need and switching it over. ALWAYS BRING ORIGINAL BILLS WITH YOU.

    6. What I also did was go to the DMV to change my driver's license over to the new address. The NYPD does not require a copy of your driver's license but I figured it is nice to show another government document with your new address. Additionally, the new driver's license is mailed to you so it could take up to two weeks to get. The sooner you do this the better.

    7. Filled out the change of address form for both pistol and rifle/shotgun. Had these forms notarized, made copies of both licenses, made copies of the utility bill but brought the originals just in case and submitted to each location. Again, you have to go to each location in person to submit these documents and to obtain the new licenses with your updated information.

    This sounds like a lot or a hassle but it was relatively easy compared to the normal nonsense one encounters when dealing with the NYPD.

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