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Thread: Should Teachers Carry Concealed Firearms?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvia View Post
    I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you have no personal real life experience to back up those statements. Not a personal attack here just saying.

    You are right, I have never had to shoot someone. If it's up to me I also hope I'll ever have to.

    The stress reaction is however well documented (mostly in warfare). A lot of people got killed by hesitation. Guys with big mouths don't necessarily respond adequately where a wine sipping and quinoa munching liberal can react heroic. Even after rigorous training. It is well documented, so if you like I can dig up some resources. It is not a new thing that hesitation kills and that the element of surprise is the biggest tactical advantage there is.

    About the being able to react. That is also well documented. You need to identify a threat, reach for your CCW (which is often slower than open carry), engage.. The shooter did all of that already and just needs to pull the trigger. The put the "21 feet rule" in LE courses for a reason. Even a knife can beat a gun in a gunfight.

    As I said, I do see the benefits of arming some people on site (not necessarily teachers). You just should not see it as a fool proof or magical way to defend kids. A shooter usually comes in with some kind of a target so he might be able to get stopped before he is able to get to that target. Usually they have beef with a person. If he runs in a classroom and empties a beta mag in a classroom, lives will be lost. If there's someone in that room that still needs to draw a gun, the person is dead. Period.

    After that it is key to do damage control and I agree that shooting back can stop the threat. Even if you don't hit.

    Defending kids and reacting to a shooter is so much more than just drawing a gun in a duel and shooting back.

    You need to have a protocol to limit chaos. The last thing armed responders need is hordes of kids stampeding through the building.

    That said, schools need to prepare for it. With the help from proffesionals, not us internet warriors. Armed responders can be a part of that. If people feel so strongly about it please feel free to reach out to your local school to help sponsor initiatives. If everyone chips in 10 bucks you can make an actual difference.

    However - as I'm in biotech myself I just need to say 140 victims over 5 years vs 600,000 (US) cancer deaths YEARLY is a very bad investment. I get the emotion behind the discussion, I really do.. But we can save thousands without any investment at all. Just wanted to point out the anti- and pro-gun hypocrisy. We have bigger things we need to worry about.
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  2. #42
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    So no you do not have any personal real world experiences to back up previous statements.

  3. #43
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    I still think it would do more good them harm to have armed people in schools even it it was only a deterrent. I think they are going to have to resort to that if these shooting keep happening.

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    NO , period ! North Carolina teachers have to pay for their own teaching supplies ! Bad F-ing idea ...... NC ranks 35th in nation for teacher pay; 43rd in per-pupil spending :: WRAL.com
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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvia View Post
    So no you do not have any personal real world experiences to back up previous statements.
    I believe I was already quite clear in that. Nor am I acting that I am a operator of some sort. We are debating pros, cons based on personal opinions here. Feel free to disagree.

    A fine example by the way.. was the LE officer that did not go in. That was someone that received training. He arrived quite soon, but did not act.

    It does not matter how you look at it, people are unreliable under stress. I agree that armed responders is a good thing, just saying it is not enough to prevent loss of lives. Can it save lives? Certainly! But it is not a certain factor.
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  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjude View Post
    Just my .02 but I disagree-seeing people discuss their thoughts and feelings about this topic in a rational thoughtful way actually made me feel like civil discourse is still possible. . . . . One DEA Agent having an AD in a classroom isn’t an argument, its an anecdote.
    I agree that this forum is doing a much better job at 'manners' and civility than other forums, but I've seen it deteriorate quickly. I've seen posters on other forums call into question a vet's patriotism because they are for some type of law that are considered "gun control." It's disgraceful.

    As for the DEA agent shooting himself in front a class of kids (come on, nothing accidental about it - neglect). It's not an anecdote. There are as many examples of teachers behaving poorly with guns as there are mass shootings. Google is your friend here.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/28/us/ge...ire/index.html

    https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/...cQEqaXTYrihbK/

    Utah teacher shoots herself in the leg while at school | MSNBC

    I mean, jeez, some dudes showed up armed to protect a gun store that had a muslim ban and he shot himself.

    Having a teacher armed is simply not something I can get behind - the statistics simply don't work and solve nothing and create more issues.

    Now cops that have to sunset into retirement and maybe serve as armed guards . . . I can discuss that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yar View Post
    Now cops that have to sunset into retirement and maybe serve as armed guards . . . I can discuss that.
    Well, maybe not ............https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2018/02/27...o-one-was-hit/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent04 View Post
    Disagree. Protection from murderers and mass killers is the job of law enforcement, not teachers. If that sheriff in Parkland FL did his job to protect the students, we wouldn't be in this mess.
    This may be true for this case, but what about every other one? You know what they say about seconds counting.
    A voice from the past whispers in my ear, “Brethren, keep your powder dry.”

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