Zenith SD is picking up some steam... - Page 4
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Thread: Zenith SD is picking up some steam...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fargo007 View Post

    What people don't understand about the MP5SD is that it was designed around a very specific CONOPS.

    It's not:

    - An otherwise equivalent but integrally suppressed version of the MP5.
    - An assaulter/entry team's all-purpose SMG
    - Made and expected to perform in the same envelope as the MP5 or other sub guns
    - A defensive firearm, made to hold a strong point and provide reliable performance across high volume of fire.

    The MP5SD was, and still is superb for what it was designed for. But to appreciate it, you have to understand what that was.
    Quite so, IMHO. The SD was introduced during the 1970s when Europe was awash in terrorism from the Baader-Meinhof 'Red Army Faction', all manner of other likewise jackass Maoist revolutionaries, and the ever present angry Palestinian militants. Anyone who lived through those years knows that stuff happened all the time through the '70s into the late '80s.

    The SD was a gun specifically designed to allow GSG-9/SAS/FBI/GIGN/etc. to incapacitate or kill a terrorist with a headshot in CQB up to 100m but not necessarily to kill or maim innocent hostages being used as a human shield in a bank robbery or airliner hijacking or fleeing for their lives in a busy airport terminal massacre or foreign embassy if they were unfortunately hit in an extremity. There's good reason that vintage photos are seen of MP5-SDs hosting telescopic sights, shorty 15-round mags, and two-round burst packs: Narrowly limited purpose precision firearm made for the good guys to eliminate inhuman fiends in operations of tremendous risk of collateral damage.

    The SD certainly has lower muzzle energy and terminal ballistics than a standard MP5 by design, but fat lot of consolation that would be to a PFLP hijacker of Lufthansa Flight 181 taking a double tap to their eye socket and left nostril from a distance of 12 feet from the muzzle. KTFTDRT, if you ask me.
    [Hk91] [Hk MP5-N] [Hk45ct]

  2. #32
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    Another great use case for the MP5SD Prez.

    Thanks for joining in.

  3. #33
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    I'm pretty sure Germany’s Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology (BMWi) has declared the SP5K as not a weapon of war and if I understand that correctly it should make other 9mm roller locked guns exportable. The question become the sporting purpose for BATFE. I think suppressors are used today for more sporting purposes and several states now allow them for hunting. Let not forget the MP5SD can is really outdated technology. Suppressors companies would never design a can like it today. If Zenith is first to the Market with this, I say good for them.
    "...but just like every other clone, they are copies of the original and copies are never as good as the original."

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamont View Post
    It just boggles my mind every time I try to process how badly H&K has f**ked up in terms of making/marketing guns for the American market, the Turks and the Paki's making millions of dollars that could have gone to Oberndorf. Who in this country would ever have bought anything they made if original German was available? I have absolutely no hesitation in saying the average HKPro member could have run H&K better than H&K did. Unglaublich.
    are you preaching to HK? :

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggie24 View Post
    I would think when they need quiet in close quarters they might still get used. Unless they moved to 300 BLK. lol
    Everyone shoots to eliminate a threat.

    We all want ammunition that will do that, quickly, and allow us to continue mission and/ or move on to the next threat.

    A 124gr bullet at ~850fps flat out doesn't cut it for going into high threat environments.

    There are numerous anecdotes of MP5SDs failing to stop a threat because of inadequate effects.

    The weapon is handicapped in terms of lethality, and that's a fact, jack.

    That being said, more choices are better, blah blah blah, and I welcome it to the market.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oicani View Post
    I'm pretty sure Germany’s Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology (BMWi) has declared the SP5K as not a weapon of war and if I understand that correctly it should make other 9mm roller locked guns exportable. The question become the sporting purpose for BATFE. I think suppressors are used today for more sporting purposes and several states now allow them for hunting. Let not forget the MP5SD can is really outdated technology. Suppressors companies would never design a can like it today. If Zenith is first to the Market with this, I say good for them.
    As I understand it, the SP5K only was approved for export because the barrel is so short. The other MP5 based guns do not qualify.

    Suppressors haven't been importable for the proletariat since 1968. There is no way HK are importing a suppressor...neither is Zenith.

  8. #37
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    Anyone know if this will be offered without a suppressor so that we can use our own pre-purchased model?

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
    Everyone shoots to eliminate a threat.

    We all want ammunition that will do that, quickly, and allow us to continue mission and/ or move on to the next threat.

    A 124gr bullet at ~850fps flat out doesn't cut it for going into high threat environments.

    There are numerous anecdotes of MP5SDs failing to stop a threat because of inadequate effects.

    The weapon is handicapped in terms of lethality, and that's a fact, jack.

    That being said, more choices are better, blah blah blah, and I welcome it to the market.
    I think you're missing the point that groups that could have anything they want have, and do, use it. It fits a roll that more powerful rifles can't quite match. (Although I would suggest that 300 BLK would be superior in the same roll the SD has dominated)
    MP5SD SW clone SBR with TPM SD can
    MP5 Coharie clone SBR with AAC Striker II can
    MP5-40 Vector clone SBR
    HK45 with Sico Osprey 45 can
    USP40
    VP9
    VP40
    Many Many more non HK firearms

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
    Everyone shoots to eliminate a threat.

    We all want ammunition that will do that, quickly, and allow us to continue mission and/ or move on to the next threat.

    A 124gr bullet at ~850fps flat out doesn't cut it for going into high threat environments.

    There are numerous anecdotes of MP5SDs failing to stop a threat because of inadequate effects.

    The weapon is handicapped in terms of lethality, and that's a fact, jack.

    That being said, more choices are better, blah blah blah, and I welcome it to the market.
    Everything you said is true, only if you have no idea what it was designed for, and deploy it in a completely different context.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    As I understand it, the SP5K only was approved for export because the barrel is so short. The other MP5 based guns do not qualify.

    Suppressors haven't been importable for the proletariat since 1968. There is no way HK are importing a suppressor...neither is Zenith.
    I maybe wrong, but I don't think there is a minimum or maximum barrel length requirement for export as a pistol from Germany. BKA has to deem or not deem them to be "weapons of war" per German Law. I believe the SC5SD is approved for export from Germany and Turkey has no such restriction. https://www.bundesanzeiger.de/ebanzw...istoryId=76910

    The question boils down to the ability to import to US. It has to be define as a "Firearm" and then as Rifle or Handgun - Pistol. SBR are not allowed for import. Some of BATFE import requirements are followed:
    (1) rifles must have a barrel length of 16 inches or more and overall length 26-inches or more;
    (2) pistols must have an overall length of 6 inches and achieve a minimum score of 75 points on ATF F 5330.5, Factoring Criteria for Weapons; and,
    (3) revolvers must have a minimum barrel length of 3 inches or more, pass the safety test and achieve a minimum score of 45 points on ATF F 5330.5

    I realize Suppressors can't be imported and thanks for pointing that out. Screw on a "Blast Shield" or "Fake Can" and I think that has a good chance for import as a pistol, but not as a rifle to make up barrel length.... Anyhow, Zenith is pretty sure they have figured it all out and perhaps HK can follow suit.

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