Omega Gideon Shadow 45acp vs Tommy Built Tactical KSM 45
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Thread: Omega Gideon Shadow 45acp vs Tommy Built Tactical KSM 45

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    Default Omega Gideon Shadow 45acp vs Tommy Built Tactical KSM 45

    Hello
    Just thinking for now, but lots of knowledge on this forum...
    Any thoughts or opinions?
    Or go the USC Conversion route?

    Thanks for any input!
    Bob H.

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    Personally for me. I wanted an HK gun with HK parts and just add the few us parts to be compliant(stuff with the magazine and my muzzle device). You can buy the USC and get the ump stub fuse but overall I feel the USC route is the most authentic feel because the Germans are the one producing the gun,not a us made receiver. But if Tommy is producing the receiver and building the gun, it’s gonna be to the German standards no matter what. He just did my USC Conversion total cost at around $2600 including the tax stamp . Also something about the Gideon shadow and people putting a pistol brace on it just doesn’t feel right. It was built as a rifle, just complete the look and put the factory buttstock on there, stop being cheap with the brace

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    lol is the Gideon shadow bad? No but it’s like dating your sister, you know it’s not right. It just helps offer a cheaper option to the people is all

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    I'd go with Tom's for nothing else than not having a really stupid model name marked on the side of the gun.

    Past that the pics I've seen of toms guns show them using the same receivers down to having the omega mark on them. I've seen someone make the claim that his new ones are using different receivers though, both toms and omega's guns are going to be using gsg9 parts for the most part so they should be similar. I'd rather go with Tom's QC and customer service though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccosby View Post
    I'd go with Tom's for nothing else than not having a really stupid model name marked on the side of the gun.

    Past that the pics I've seen of toms guns show them using the same receivers down to having the omega mark on them. I've seen someone make the claim that his new ones are using different receivers though, both toms and omega's guns are going to be using gsg9 parts for the most part so they should be similar. I'd rather go with Tom's QC and customer service though.
    Very good point lol I forgot that Gideon shadow is on the receiver. You should narrow it down to just Tom or usc conversion and also don’t forget tommy can remark the USC to have all the marking of an UMP and you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference besides the rear plate unless you got the fuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorrillaznyc View Post
    Personally for me. I wanted an HK gun with HK parts and just add the few us parts to be compliant(stuff with the magazine and my muzzle device). You can buy the USC and get the ump stub fuse but overall I feel the USC route is the most authentic feel because the Germans are the one producing the gun,not a us made receiver. But if Tommy is producing the receiver and building the gun, it’s gonna be to the German standards no matter what. He just did my USC Conversion total cost at around $2600 including the tax stamp . Also something about the Gideon shadow and people putting a pistol brace on it just doesn’t feel right. It was built as a rifle, just complete the look and put the factory buttstock on there, stop being cheap with the brace
    I respectfully disagree about the brace. A non-nfa option that allows for interstate travel without atf approval is a plus. A pistol is a much more liquid asset if you chose to sell. Once SBR'd, even if removed from registry, a gun with somebody's form4 info engraved on it is much less desirable.

    A USC>>UMP with a 16" barrel and 922r parts is no closer to a UMP than a US receiver pistol with German components.

    I for one have German parts waiting for TBT to release his receiver so I can build a pistol.

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    Pistol braces are becoming more and more of a hassle with the national spotlight to include being able to no longer use a vertical grip on almost all pistol brace weapons. A lot of people are predicting more rule changes to the pistol braces that’s gonna leave a lot of people in a bind and running to the hills to form 1 their weapon. And a USC conversion is closer to an UMP than a us made receiver due to the fact that the most important piece of the gun is German and all you have to do is cut the German barrel down to proper size. I personally like knowing my receiver is genuine HK but tommy is also not a bad alternative at all. Nothing wrong with pistol braces, just saying oh here’s my UMP....pistol, doesn’t feel right

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    The ATF is aware of the very loose guidelines regarding pistol braces and that is why they are backtracking and releasing new rulings. I wouldn’t be surprised if they said again you couldn’t shoulder the brace. Then you’re gonna have every stupid RO at a range trying to call the cops on you for shouldering it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorrillaznyc View Post
    Pistol braces are becoming more and more of a hassle with the national spotlight to include being able to no longer use a vertical grip on almost all pistol brace weapons. A lot of people are predicting more rule changes to the pistol braces that’s gonna leave a lot of people in a bind and running to the hills to form 1 their weapon. And a USC conversion is closer to an UMP than a us made receiver due to the fact that the most important piece of the gun is German and all you have to do is cut the German barrel down to proper size. I personally like knowing my receiver is genuine HK but tommy is also not a bad alternative at all. Nothing wrong with pistol braces, just saying oh here’s my UMP....pistol, doesn’t feel right
    Valid concerns.

    Right or wrong, you have not been able to legally have a second vertical grip on a pistol without it being a registered NFA weapon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbinmt View Post
    a gun with somebody's form4 info engraved on it is much less desirable.
    I checked with Tom before I had the engraving done on my USC/UMP conversion. He said it would be no problem to fill in the markings.

    If you are choosing a receiver, going with Tom's is a no brainer. Both in up front quality and customer service and the $$ hit that bailey guns take at resale.

    Right now, I would (and did) go with a USC and sent it for a full fuse job to Tommy. I have missed the boat on many genuine H&K products, and always regretted it. They won't be importing the USC forever.
    Gorrillaznyc and Blacktoy like this.

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