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  1. #11
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    Really cold design I remember when TSC Made something similar
    TSC Machine ? HK MP5NavyST

    As far as the rail system. can't wait to see more good luck with Your endeavors
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    We do, its just not listed on the website. We designed our chassis to work on all of the legacy Hk roller lock receivers. We are in process of producing the 5.56 chassis now and 7.62 will follow a few months after.
    Really the difficult thing right now for the 5.56 guns is finding a consistant source for good receivers or flats.

    Shameless plug,
    While i am a Hk purest at heart and will one day add a sp5 to the collection. For a shooter i dont want to buy 3 to 400$ worth of extra stuff to mount an optic or vertical grip to my gun. Our packages start at 2499.99 and come in a better case that looks like a laptop bag and can carry a gun with a folding brace very nicely.

    (Note on the attached picture, all of our firearms come with paddle mag releases. This is my personal firearm, i freakin hate the paddle mag release, im a lefty. So i built mine without it)
    Did not know that you were affiliated!!!

    Tony

  3. #13
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    Did not know that you were affiliated!!! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.hkpro.com/forum/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

    Tony
    Indeed, been working on this project with my business partner/employer for about 4 years now. Primarily im the guy building the firearms.
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  5. #14
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    ahahahaha an April 1st delivery launch date....good one!
    Thomas Jefferson -
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    Quote Originally Posted by flybynt View Post
    You all know how much I LOVE my HK 9x series guns, and I think they are great and just about perfect they way they ARE for the age of the design and for WHAT they are i.e a simple, relatively soft shooting, accurate, rugged and proven platform.

    This is why we did not screw with the operating system its all US MFG Billet steel and is no different from a HK. Other then adding a permanent Tungsten Di-sulfide coating to the inside of the receiver and to the bolt carrier assembly. its oven cure not a just a lubricant its some really slick stuff the dynamic friction co-efficient around .03, currently evaluating how it operates with Zero liquid lubricant.

    As for this concept, I am inclined to think that would rather invest that kind of money in a new design such as a B&T APC-9 If I needed rail more space than I can get with the 9x current rail and optic mounting options even if I were considering to use it as a sear host.

    i have mad respect for B&T's products, but if i want a straight blow back sub gun ill buy a UMP. too much port pop when suppressed

    @paul123 I also find it surprising that the design does not offer the end user the option to change the charging handle from the left to the right side.
    there is SO MUCH we are cooking up and have in the process of being manufactured that i wont talk about just yet that may include something along those lines and much much more. next few months will have info start to trickle out. Our policy is not to reveal or post any information about our products unless they're either on the shelf or being assembled. currently we've been busy assembling a batch for our shot show display and to fill orders for early supporters. you will never see us make "VaporWare" posts

    However, I hope you continue to evolve the platform and make more sweeping changes, good luck with your endeavor.

    our mission statement is " Innovation.Evolution.Reliability."
    as for the april 1st release date, thats actually legit. i dont think Will or myself realized it when we set it. he may have done it to be humorous though if so it completely flew over my head.
    Last edited by paul123; 01-17-2020 at 05:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    as for the april 1st release date, thats actually legit. i dont think Will or myself realized it when we set it. he may have done it to be humorous though if so it completely flew over my head.
    Thanks for the timely and informative reply!

    BTW: I have a UMP, CZ Scorpion Evo, and a recently acquired B&T APC-9, they are all great for different reasons as well as being unique in their own ways, but they will never replace my HK mp5/9x guns

  8. #17
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    Ok, so I've had some thoughts on this "revolutionary" business, but have kept them to myself, mostly because I respect supporting vendors.
    But now comes the thread, so I'll let loose.

    In a word. Why? Seriously. Why? The rail system has to add a decent amount of weight, and it just looks bizarre.

    For pure function? Maybe it actually adds value. But lets face it .. few/none of use are running around using these guns "for business." As range toys? Who needs it? The AK world is suffering something similar. AKs used to be cheap, but now ARs are cheaper than AKs... and the only dudes scoping US-made AKs now are the AK-purists.. the AKs selling out regularly are the wood-stocked Russian-looking models. And for good reason.. who needs tapco or magpul furniture? It's fugly. Bottom line.

    Likewise for the roller-lock world, I believe. I don't want rails and chassis and what not. Give me a quality MP5 clone, a set of drum sights, and leave the damned thing alone.

    At least, thats what I want in theory. In practice? My only clone is a PSG1, and I buy real HK when I can.

    SP5? The Fates are against y'all, but I have a soft spot in my heart for those that tempt Fate.

    Build a traditional MP5. Skip the weirdness, and give us a killer price-point to make PTR wet themselves. You'll likely score.
    Don't like the competition in the 9mm market? I get it. Go 5.56 pistol builds.

    But, my point is, we don't need weirdo rails and chassis. We need affordable, reliable guns.
    Last edited by sickness; 01-17-2020 at 06:46 AM.
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    Own: HK91, SR9, PSG1 clone, SP5k, G36k, HK416, P30L, 2x P8, 2x P8A1, USP9, USP9 FDE
    Future: SP5 inbound

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    Ok, so I've had some thoughts on this "revolutionary" business, but have kept them to myself, mostly because I respect supporting vendors.
    But now comes the thread, so I'll let loose.

    In a word. Why? Seriously. Why? The rail system has to add a decent amount of weight, and it just looks bizarre.

    For pure function? Maybe it actually adds value. But lets face it .. few/none of use are running around using these guns "for business." As range toys? Who needs it? The AK world is suffering something similar. AKs used to be cheap, but now ARs are cheaper than AKs... and the only dudes scoping US-made AKs now are the AK-purists.. the AKs selling out regularly are the wood-stocked Russian-looking models. And for good reason.. who needs tapco or magpul furniture? It's fugly. Bottom line.

    Likewise for the roller-lock world, I believe. I don't want rails and chassis and what not. Give me a quality MP5 clone, a set of drum sights, and leave the damned thing alone.

    At least, thats what I want in theory. In practice? My only clone is a PSG1, and I buy real HK when I can.

    SP5? The Fates are against y'all, but I have a soft spot in my heart for those that tempt Fate.

    Build a traditional MP5. Skip the weirdness, and give us a killer price-point to make PTR wet themselves. You'll likely score.
    Don't like the competition in the 9mm market? I get it. Go 5.56 pistol builds.

    But, my point is, we don't need weirdo rails and chassis. We need affordable, reliable guns.
    appreciate the feed back, I completely understand where your coming from and can respect your opinion. I will say to that point based on the current amount of feed back we have received on the project your point of view is by a large margin in the minority.

    as for answers to a few of your questions,

    Why? quite a few reasons but a couple big ones were, Cause we hated buying extra stuff to mount any accessories to our guns. Literally (out dated claw mount stuff aside) everything currently a common place accessory in the shooting world needs some form of adapter to attach to a MP5. we wanted to be able to actually co-witness a optic, my personal opinion happens to be that HK diopter sights are trash. so much so that when i built myself a G3K and i put Sig 550 front and rear diopters on it. Really a lot of the reasons are personal preference which more then likely would not be the same as yours as i am not trying to change your point of view ill move on.

    the weight, its the biggest issue people bring up when they see a photo of our gun.
    The whole system set side by side with standard Mp5 with a A2 stock on both guns and a plastic fore end on the standard gun. we add just shy of 10 ounces to the gun. spread over the entire receiver. with no change to the center of gravity. take that same standard Mp5 and add a knights rail and Clamp on 1913 optic mount then depending on the type of optic mount used we are either on par or a ounce or two lighter. a Mlok forend for a standard gun is a bit lighter but it does not share the same capability as our rail. our top optic rail is always at zero with the fore end accessory mounting planes and the whole rail actually is adjustable to allow it to be zeroed to the bore center line.

    as for the SP5 yeah that's a tough hill to climb, but being a hk purist aside (trust me im still buying a SP5 for my collection) still gotta buy crap to use anything you may use with your other guns, you can have it in any color you want so long as its black and if you own a sear then its use on the sp5 is a questionable thing to do in its currently imported configuration.

    We do sell traditional MP5's, not too far off from PTRs price point. we will build someone anything they want. there are already well established clone builders out there. it would be a poor marketing approach to enter the market with something that is not different. there would be little incentive for someone to buy what they can already get from established sources. currently NO ONE builds an MP5 that offers the same options and possible capability's as our version.

    2499$ is around the same price as a SP5, Cheaper then a Dakota or brethren, we charge more then zenith and PTR because the components we utilize are in our opinion superior in physical properties as well as manufacturing tolerance.

    plus None of those i just mentioned can allow you to order a gun for anything close to 2500$ with a Traditional hk style MP5 -SD barrel in it because you cant use that type of suppressor without going with the full SD conversion. we will do it for only the price difference of the sd barrel over the 3 lug. that being said Our integral SD suppressed gun is better though.

    to alot of people that may make our little weirdo rail a hell of a lot more appealing. as well as affordable, plus we have a limited lifetime warranty.
    jimmydfw and oinco like this.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    appreciate the feed back, I completely understand where your coming from and can respect your opinion. I will say to that point based on the current amount of feed back we have received on the project your point of view is by a large margin in the minority.
    Feedback is much different than orders.

    I have always thought your Sig/G3K hybrid is very cool. It's not something I would ever build or buy.

    The only unique thing I see you guys offering is a large rail system. Instead of just selling that, you are packaging it with a gun...

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    appreciate the feed back, I completely understand where your coming from and can respect your opinion. I will say to that point based on the current amount of feed back we have received on the project your point of view is by a large margin in the minority.
    Well, thank you. And let me say, especially knowing that a long-time forum member is involved -- I think I speak for all of us here when I say we wish you the best in your endeavors. I just find this setup curious. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist that just doesn't get it. Maybe I'd need to hold one for it to click.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    Why? quite a few reasons but a couple big ones were, Cause we hated buying extra stuff to mount any accessories to our guns. Literally (out dated claw mount stuff aside) everything currently a common place accessory in the shooting world needs some form of adapter to attach to a MP5. we wanted to be able to actually co-witness a optic, my personal opinion happens to be that HK diopter sights are trash.
    OK, fair enough - that is true. But we're talking $100 for an ultra low mount to co-witness a red dot which adds all of 5 or 6 ounces to the gun? And I don't see how your rail solution addresses the co-witness issue. I see a pocket for an RDS, but no irons. Am I missing something?

    Quote Originally Posted by paul123 View Post
    The whole system set side by side with standard Mp5 with a A2 stock on both guns and a plastic fore end on the standard gun. we add just shy of 10 ounces to the gun. spread over the entire receiver. with no change to the center of gravity. take that same standard Mp5 and add a knights rail and Clamp on 1913 optic mount then depending on the type of optic mount used we are either on par or a ounce or two lighter.
    Well, truthfully -- to me that is a lot weight to add to a 9mm gun where its modern competition is already a half-lb or so lighter. Half a lb -- and a lot of rail right near the charging handle? What could I realistically put up there that wouldn't start to interfere with the charging handle? I can't put an offset light up there, as a righty, because of the cocking handle.. I guess lefties would be OK, except reaching over the gun would seem to run the risk of cheese grater effect on the hand.

    I'd have probably gone smooth, and MLOK up top as well, and offered a long rail section for those that need it. Shave some of those ounces off. It seems like that chassis replaces the ordinary cocking tube? If so, that's actually kind of cool -- except then I'd expect the entire thing to be ambidextrous, or at least able to switch?! I dunno.

    I feel like I'm being a negative-Nancy -- so let me point out what I do really like: the ACR adapter. The ACR stocks are really nice, and if I were going to SBR an SP5, that is something I would look at very closely if it were available separately.
    Last edited by sickness; 01-17-2020 at 03:49 PM.

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