New Guy needing a little direction
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  1. #1
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    Default New Guy needing a little direction

    Hello
    First post here...Just have a couple questions . 1st is this the right place to post questions regarding building of an Hk pattern rifle. I have a 93 in the works and have a couple questions on difficulty to un lock. Should this be the wrong board would you be so kind as to direct me to the right place.
    Thanks Jerry
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    Sheepdog in West Texas

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    panzerjunky,

    Welcome to the Red & Black road. It's a log journey and along the way you will empty your wallet. But in the end you find you have an excellent collection of HK firearms.

    I'm NOT the guy that can tell you the info you seek. I'm sure they will pop up and educate both of us.

    again, welcome to the Hk Enablers forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by panzerjunky View Post
    Hello
    I have a 93 in the works and have a couple questions on difficulty to un lock.
    Thanks Jerry
    1st check the bolt gap, If its not in spec then fix that before moving on.

    If its in spec check the gap between the cocking tube support and bolt carrier.
    There should be a space about as thick as a dime between the two with the bolt in a locked position(in battery). Measure with feeler gauges or a caliper. No space is bad as well as excessive space(excessive space usually causes the hard to unlock). should be around 1mm

    If those are good then look at the cocking lever as well as the abutment(where it cams against in the cocking tube) and check for wear. The stop abutment could be worn down preventing unlocking with all other parts in spec.

    last thing to check would be the pin in the cocking tube support/cocking handle, if you have a weak spring and the handle will not go forwards when the bolt is released. it will smash/bend the little pin, which will cause it to be hard to unlock.

    It is one of those, I just chased this down with my hk21, the lever had been beating the abutment to death and it became impossible to unlock. Another reason HK updated the design in newer guns
    Last edited by TaylorWSO; 03-30-2020 at 05:59 PM.

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    Thanks for the help TaylorWSO
    So my bolt to carrier gap (headspace is 019 which I think is right in there. Now here is where I have the misunderstanding. What is the cocking tube gap. I had a brand new HK parts flat and a brand new RTG cocking tube. Put all the parts in my RTG jig and welded it up question is did I F up by butting the new cocking tube to the receiver and welding? Or is the gap we are speaking of at the other end. Where when the cocking lever is at rest and I push back slightly on the cocking tube and tube support. there is a good 1MM gap between the (at rest) end of the cocking lever and the cocking Tube abutment. When building I messed with the gap between the new cocking tube and the receiver. if the gap was to much the cocking lever would not cam on the abutment and un lock the rifle. Where it stands now is If I open the cocking lever ( ready to cock) it does cam the bolt carrier back ( trying to un lock ) the bolt to carrier gap is now .078 measurement was done by stacking feeler gauges not the most scientific. So what should that gap be in the correct unlocked position? Also the cocking lever is an old used Old style metal one and the pin is used the spring however is brand new.
    Hope this helps possibly identify my issue
    Thanks Jerry

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    Also where and how do I check the gap between the cocking tube and the bolt carrier? This I think is where the wheels are falling off the bus. do you mean the actual cocking tube or the cocking tube support that actually interfaces with the bolt carrier? Sorry for the Dumb questions as I have built hundreds of guns over the years from every country and every war but this is my First HK clone. and as we all know each weapon type has its that is you don't get it right it just doesn't work.
    Thanks again for the help
    Jerry

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    Welcome to the site!!!

    Tony

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    Quote Originally Posted by panzerjunky View Post
    Thanks for the help TaylorWSO
    So my bolt to carrier gap (headspace is 019 which I think is right in there. Now here is where I have the misunderstanding. What is the cocking tube gap. I had a brand new HK parts flat and a brand new RTG cocking tube. Put all the parts in my RTG jig and welded it up question is did I F up by butting the new cocking tube to the receiver and welding? Or is the gap we are speaking of at the other end. Where when the cocking lever is at rest and I push back slightly on the cocking tube and tube support. there is a good 1MM gap between the (at rest) end of the cocking lever and the cocking Tube abutment. When building I messed with the gap between the new cocking tube and the receiver. if the gap was to much the cocking lever would not cam on the abutment and un lock the rifle. Where it stands now is If I open the cocking lever ( ready to cock) it does cam the bolt carrier back ( trying to un lock ) the bolt to carrier gap is now .078 measurement was done by stacking feeler gauges not the most scientific. So what should that gap be in the correct unlocked position? Also the cocking lever is an old used Old style metal one and the pin is used the spring however is brand new.
    Hope this helps possibly identify my issue
    Thanks Jerry
    the gap is between the cocking tube SUPPORT and and the bolt carrier. My wording probably confused you.

    the location of the cocking tube is dependent where the end of the cocking tube support meets the bolt carrier. If you just welded it in without measuring the gap between the tube support and bolt carrier, its probably off.

    if you are moving the bolt by .058 ish it should be enough. You might need to set the gap betweew the support and bolt carrier even less than you have it. That's the part you need to measure

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    Quote Originally Posted by panzerjunky View Post
    the cocking tube support that actually interfaces with the bolt carrier?
    Jerry
    this is the gap you measure, calipers will be fine
    Last edited by TaylorWSO; 03-30-2020 at 06:00 PM.

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    One other thing to look at - the corner of the cocking handle lever itself. I’ve seen a few that are worn, so don’t push the carrier as far back as they should. They should come almost to a point where they push against the front stop. If they are rounded off, they need to be replaced. I had one one time that someone welded together incorrectly. I welded a hardened washer to the end of the tube support (made it longer basically), sanded the edges smooth, ground it to the right depth, then re-parkerized it. It was a lot easier than cutting the tube out and rewelding and refinishing the entire receiver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AviatorDave View Post
    One other thing to look at - the corner of the cocking handle lever itself. I’ve seen a few that are worn, so don’t push the carrier as far back as they should. They should come almost to a point where they push against the front stop. If they are rounded off, they need to be replaced. I had one one time that someone welded together incorrectly. I welded a hardened washer to the end of the tube support (made it longer basically), sanded the edges smooth, ground it to the right depth, then re-parkerized it. It was a lot easier than cutting the tube out and rewelding and refinishing the entire receiver.
    Thank guys for all your help Aviator Dave was right ( along with everyone else for that matter as it all comes down to measurements) But ya I ordered a new extended cocking lever from RTG ( love those guys) when I got it well it all made sense my existing lever looked like someone took to it with a grinder whey I have no idea unless they had an old cocking tube and set it way to far back when they welded it to the receiver. But at any rate, the new lever worked flawlessly . so thanks fellas appreciate your help.
    Thanks Jerry

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