HK's are garbage...so I was told - Page 2
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Thread: HK's are garbage...so I was told

  1. #11
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    All I know about Para...

    My local range owner has one and he had the hammer literally break off during live fire.

    My local gun store owner will no longer stock Para after a customer had a cracked slide and Para would not replace it. He also showed me two Para mags. that flew apart because they were not properly made.

    I have had numerous Para "Warthog" owners tell me it is the worst and most troublesome handgun they have ever purchased.

    All that aside, HK's have lifetime warranties. Why didn't your godfather just send them back instead of trying to buy parts and fix them himself?
    Last edited by H&K 4 LIFE; 08-18-2009 at 04:54 PM.
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  2. #12
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    I think Todd nailed it. I have heard many of the same complaints about parts availability but my understanding is that has improved over time. It is hard to justify calling Hk's "junk". I am surprised the gentlemen who was calling them junk has such high regard for Para's LDA platform????

    No firearms manufacture is without fault but in my opinion Hk's quality speaks for itself.

    It also appears from Todd's P30 test that they are far from junk and that their service has been excellent.

  3. #13
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    I would not recommend a Para to my worst enemy and I have more than a few enemies.

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  5. #14
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    Default Things to ponder

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    why are parts so hard to get? I mean if you have a pasrt that needs replacing even if u send your gun to HK will they have they part to fix it? Or do they just not ship out parts?
    Maximus:

    Consider these reasons (NOT excuses!) why HK parts availability have been an issue.
    -HK currently makes more than 80 different weapons (100's of variants!)
    -80 weapons x on average 60 parts per weapon - 4800 individual parts (this does not include mags, accessories, trigger groups, tools, gages, variant parts, sights, night sights, etc., etc.)
    -To their credit HK improves parts regularly which means there are then old, new, newer and newest style parts - it can be tough to keep up with and the old style parts become waste (scrap) at the sake of always offering the very best.
    -Inventory Cost - it streches into the $10M's (> $11M when I was last there in 2006) especially when you consider the more complex but low qty but high dollar value pieces like GMG and HK21E.
    -How many do you carry? It is hard to project the needs of the wide ranging user base and the accountants are always looking to save money by keeping the inventory "manageable". Accountants (most) don't know the diffeence between a high use locking roller holder and a dust collecting 4x12mm roll pin for the G41 carrying handle - they just see numbers. You simply cannot stock an unlimited supply or your inventory liability drives you out of business.
    -Import restrictions and delays and production lag times. There are many, and most out of your control, each one affecting timely delivery. If it is not in stock at HK GmbH (and they supply customers all around the world) than it can take 4-6 months to get it into the production schedule and a few more months to get it delivered. Priorities in a finite production facilities are every changing.

    Again not excuses. These are realities. I have always believed that if you sell your product to US users, all users not just those in uniform, you have a responsibility to support them with service and parts and in a manner that is not exhausting for the customer to navigate. In a general sense there is a history of a lack of focus on the support side arguably and in my opinion that is more important than the sales side. Return customers account for the majority of sales in most commodities, especially in high cost, often hard to get products such as HK's. Take care of them after the sale and they will be back if you offer a quality product.

    If they were generating the income they could be on the sale of US-assembled, semi-auto rifles like the HK416, HK417, G36, XM8, maybe MP7, maybe an updated HK91, etc., and could have been since @ 2004 now, and selling the many parts and accessories the US market has been screaming for, there would be plenty of funds to cover a more generous spare parts inventory. A more focused effort to make parts available through responsive dealers and maybe a walk-in/mailorder "HK Pro Shop" (with Friday public tours of the Gray Room) are just a few of the ideas to fix what is broken in this regard. However it first starts with the interest, willingness and means to make it happen.

    This post is personal opinion (based on first hand experience) and not that of this station or its management!

    G3Kurz

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtmtnbiker98 View Post
    I would not recommend a Para to my worst enemy and I have more than a few enemies.
    Dude, I would love to arm all my enemies with Paras.

    G3Kurz -- excellent point on the import/export regulation problems. It's a minefield these days, parson the pun.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFighter View Post
    HK does need to do a better job serving local law enforcement. They should have more affordable police packages with night sights and three magazines. Parts should be in stock and rush shipped to an officer whose primary weapon needs a repair so he can get back on the street.
    That is what Glocks and M&Pís are for. Iím doubtful that HK is concerned with local or even state LE contracts. This is not what HK is about. They are concerned with military and large LE accounts, such as the DHS contract they acquired and some of their European police contracts.

    Personally, Iíve had good results with HKís civilian customer service. Also, what are all these HK parts you guys are looking for that you canít find (other than P30 mags)? There are HK parts allover the web, HKparts.net, Midway USA, etc.

  8. #17
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    well I gotta agree on the Para issue. Para's do not impress me. The quality sucks on the Paras I have seen. Poor fitting of parts, I have seen what looked to be 'warped frames on two LDAs. I got a older Para in a trade about maybe 2 years ago. It was NIB and before I even got it to the range the trigger broke. When I called Para they said I needed a trigger assembly upgrade but I would have to pay for it. It was like $30 bucks or something. And they wouldnt pay that or shipping. I got rid of that gun the day I got it back from Para. Ill never own one and they way they treated me....it was like I was bothering them. I mean who does an 'upgrade' which I know is just a different way in this case to say RECALL....and makes the customer pay when a gun (one that was unfired too) for repair? THAT is what garbage is. (Please no insult is intended to any Para owners who might be here. Agian...just what happened to me)

    So with all do respect to my godfather, I dont see the logic. Im just glad I dont work at that PD. I guess if you get burned bad enough by something you will forever stay away from that something. I understand that.

    Fortunately my HK experience has been positive.

    Thats why I like this forum. Lots of wise HK owners but who are objective enough to see where things need improvement.
    Last edited by Maximus; 08-18-2009 at 09:23 PM.

  9. #18
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    I believe HK makes fine, and I mean fine handguns. The parts availability could be better.

  10. #19
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    Maximus it seems you have the proper perspective about HK's and your Godfather has a different opinion. Why some people come to negative conclusions can be valid and some not. We all know what HK is really all about and know quite differently. No matter there are plenty of guns for everyone's taste and like you I am a huge HK fan.
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    AviatorDave, I think I know the SWAT member you have talked to. I used to live in DFW; still train there occasionally and do my "bigger" business there.

    Anyway, I've heard his story and another Police Chief in the area's story about HK issues and parts. Furthermore, I also had a discussion with somebody that's a major seller of AR15 parts who used to represent HK. He got fed up with their parts issues (lack of) too.

    Every time I've called HK for something...no parts. Granted, last time I called they were still in AL. I really don't know why I am so loyal, but I am.

    Of course, as to date, I've never had anything break...just preparing for it kind of thing and an LEM trigger upgrade.

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