Hk MARK 23 LAM- what model is this? - Page 4
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Thread: Hk MARK 23 LAM- what model is this?

  1. #31
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    Incredible amount of information , Sven. You've cleared up several foggy mysteries for me. I've always noticed the different teardrop shape in the laser housings and just assumed that meant they required different pattern gens. You are thinking the earlier units just don't have any corresponding gens? It turns out for all of my Insight LAMs, the two IR capable ones I need the gens for (400) cant use them and the two newer (1450, 1000) can fit the pattern gens but don't need them. What a drag! I would still take a set in the off chance I can make them fit, or use the lenses in a homemade diffuser housing.

    I agree completely on the diffusion aspect, that's why I've been wanting a set so bad. If it didn't have a diffuser only option I was going to pop the laser shapes out of one. (Although triangle is pretty cool I must admit! PEQ15 gens fit over the laser apertures) Outside it isn't so bad so it definitely has some value there, but inside it can be so bright that, due to autogating, it makes the darker areas too dark and the lighter areas too light. As soon as you point the weapon down it all magically comes back into view. I just keep it off. The IR laser capabilities though make it all worth while. I've been thinking about writing up a post with some pictures about how great MK23+IR with a good Gen3+ can be.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spleen View Post
    Incredible amount of information , Sven. You've cleared up several foggy mysteries for me. I've always noticed the different teardrop shape in the laser housings and just assumed that meant they required different pattern gens. You are thinking the earlier units just don't have any corresponding gens? It turns out for all of my Insight LAMs, the two IR capable ones I need the gens for (400) cant use them and the two newer (1450, 1000) can fit the pattern gens but don't need them. What a drag! I would still take a set in the off chance I can make them fit, or use the lenses in a homemade diffuser housing.

    I agree completely on the diffusion aspect, that's why I've been wanting a set so bad. If it didn't have a diffuser only option I was going to pop the laser shapes out of one. (Although triangle is pretty cool I must admit! PEQ15 gens fit over the laser apertures) Outside it isn't so bad so it definitely has some value there, but inside it can be so bright that, due to autogating, it makes the darker areas too dark and the lighter areas too light. As soon as you point the weapon down it all magically comes back into view. I just keep it off. The IR laser capabilities though make it all worth while. I've been thinking about writing up a post with some pictures about how great MK23+IR with a good Gen3+ can be.
    My pleasure to help / share on the knowledge, Spleen!

    The early model Mk23 LAM (PEQ-6 / Insight Model 400), did not have an accessory cover for diffuser or pattern generation. The original intent was for a IR filter to be affixed to the white light illuminator for close-in work and use within enclosed or indoor spaces. The halogen gas bulb which is standard for the Mk23 / Mark 23 LAM outputs a prodigious amount of infrared light in addition to visible white light. When filtered with 850 nm IR bandpass filter, it outputs just the right amount infrared illumination to be useful and not overpowering to NODs / NVGs within 25 yards within enclosed spaces.

    It wasn't until the emergence of the PEQ-14 requirements nearly 10 years after the first Mk23 LAM that the IR diffuser and then the pattern generator covers became an integral part of the PEQ-6 design. The reason for this is that at about that time, the industry in light optics began moving, in earnest, from incandescent technologies to the much more robust, cooler operating, and more energy efficient LED lamp technologies. Knowing that LED lamps for white light were the emerging trend, and knowing that white light LED lamps output little to no infrared, the military requirements engineers added the requirement for diffusion lenses for the IR illuminator on the ILWLP. Concurrently, the use of high powered IR laser pointers as sparklers and signalling devices surged in the U.S. Military's combat operations, and thus the adaptation of the lens covers to hold holographic "pattern generator" lenses.

    Once, on a lark (aka 'shits and grins'), I opened a PEQ-14 and relocated its internals for IR laser aiming and illumination to a LAM-1450 (VIS only model), after drilling out the escutcheon on the LAM-1450 to make way for the IR laser aimer and illuminator apertures. It turned out to be quite a chore to both disarticulate the PEQ-14 and retrofit the LAM-1450 as the electronics in both are all potted in epoxy ... about as tedious as complex as removing a fossil Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton from Gobi Desert red rock with dental tools and a small brush. It took months and months of patient labor to free the transplant components and then to re-connect them. The result was remarkable, though and when I got the converted LAM-1450 re-potted and fully assembled, it was impossible to tell the difference from a LAM-1400 without looking at the old label still on the unit.

    A field-expedient diffuser for the IR illuminator is very easy to craft. Just use a hole-punch to knock-out round blanks from a section of semi-transparent Scotch tape. Stick the round blank over the IR illuminator lens and it will diffuse the output. If you need more diffusion, stick another round blank or several more on top until you tune the diffusion to where it works best for your application or need.

    An interesting project for folks with optics engineering background is to build a CAD system for holographic image transfer to acetate film using a common laser printer. There's freeware software routines for this work, but tuning the offset for the holographics requires quite a bit of skill and knowledge of how to manage light as vectors. For fun, I've developed custom pattern generators for the IZLID 1000, MPLI, etc. that project images of agency logos, corps insignia, and the occasional pin-up girl onto distant surfaces (e.g. tree-line, mountainside, etc.). The IZLID and MPLI both use Butler Creek flip caps on their objectives, and therefore it is a simple matter to cut an opening into the lid / cover and affix the acetate film to the inside rim.

    Sven

  3. #33
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    Sven,

    Thank you for clearing up much about the Insight LAM's!!!

    Questions:

    1. Are all AN/PEQ-14 (ILWLP Model 1000) set up only with the 1913 pic rail (hence, the "factory" Insight adaptors for the M9- SIG P226/228 and other "aftermarket" adaptors for the Mark 23 (i.e, no Mark 23 wheel/screw trigger locking mechanism), or would it be the latest LAM 1400 or AN/PEQ-6A for the Mark 23?

    2. Is there an AN/PEQ-6A (ILLM Model 400) specifically for the Mark 23, or would it be the latest LAM 1400 for the Mark 23?

    Tony

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGG View Post
    Sven,

    Thank you for clearing up much about the Insight LAM's!!!

    Questions:

    1. Are all AN/PEQ-14 (ILWLP Model 1000) set up only with the 1913 pic rail (hence, the "factory" Insight adaptors for the M9- SIG P226/228 and other "aftermarket" adaptors for the Mark 23 (i.e, no Mark 23 wheel/screw trigger locking mechanism), or would it be the latest LAM 1400 or AN/PEQ-6A for the Mark 23?

    2. Is there an AN/PEQ-6A (ILLM Model 400) specifically for the Mark 23, or would it be the latest LAM 1400 for the Mark 23?

    Tony
    Tony,

    You're welcome. It is my pleasure to help with any information that may be useful to you as an HK enthusiast!

    (1) The AN/PEQ-14 standard includes only the M1913 picatinny rail interface. The AN/PEQ-14 specification does not include the Insight LAM-1400 or any LAM with proprietary mount for the Mk23 / Mark 23 pistol.

    (2) The AN/PEQ-6 specification includes both the Insight Model 400 and Model 1400 LAMs. The Model 1400 was a "product improvement" on and incremental enhancement to the Model 400, and thereby superseded it as the military's PEQ-6. This means that once the LAM-1400 entered into production, it became the sole variant that Insight would deliver to fulfill military orders for the Mk23 LAM. Since the U.S. military has decommissioned the Mk23 pistol, HK has ceased production on the Mk23 pistol, and Insight L3 / Eotech has ceased production on the Mk23 LAM, the Model 1400 is the final variant of the AN/PEQ-6.

    Enclosed below is a photo that shows the case / container and documentation that the PEQ-14 (on the left) and PEQ-6 (on the right) were shipped with from Insight L3. Of particular interest is the text printed on the box for the LAM-1400, which reads "Developed for USSOCOM as the AN/PEQ-6 ..."

    Sven

    Click on the image below to enlarge ...


  6. #35
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    Something tells me Sven works for Insight Lights and needs to hook me up with a LAM 1400.....

  7. #36
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    Sven, I have often pondered digging out the internals from a 400 and putting them in at 1450! I knew they were sealed solid with epoxy, I think the manual says so, but I was afraid something inside was also pressurized with nitrogen or something, similar to PVS units. I would never forgive myself if I cut some kind of seal and heard that HISSSSS. I'd probably wait around and try to catch a IR capable 1000 rather than potentially ruin one of my thumbscrew 400s.

    If you have pictures of one of them open I would definitely like to see that!

    I will try the scotch tape... as soon as it's dark! Obviously, the real pattern gens would be fun. I taped a PEQ15 triangle pattern generator on one of my 400s (the dual lasers are the same distance apart, so they work for VIS and IR at the same time) and the MK23 at night with triangle pattern gens definitely has a PREDATOR feel to it!

    Also, you are my new best friend. Deal with it.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by azimuth View Post
    Something tells me Sven works for Insight Lights and needs to hook me up with a LAM 1400.....
    Good one, azimuth! If I were King, there would be a LAM-1400 for every Mark 23 owner on these boards ... and a case of 'em for you! ;-)

    Sven

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sven53 View Post
    Good one, azimuth! If I were King, there would be a LAM-1400 for every Mark 23 owner on these boards ... and a case of 'em for you! ;-)

    Sven
    Long live King Sven!!!

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spleen View Post
    Sven, I have often pondered digging out the internals from a 400 and putting them in at 1450! I knew they were sealed solid with epoxy, I think the manual says so, but I was afraid something inside was also pressurized with nitrogen or something, similar to PVS units. I would never forgive myself if I cut some kind of seal and heard that HISSSSS. I'd probably wait around and try to catch a IR capable 1000 rather than potentially ruin one of my thumbscrew 400s.

    If you have pictures of one of them open I would definitely like to see that!

    I will try the scotch tape... as soon as it's dark! Obviously, the real pattern gens would be fun. I taped a PEQ15 triangle pattern generator on one of my 400s (the dual lasers are the same distance apart, so they work for VIS and IR at the same time) and the MK23 at night with triangle pattern gens definitely has a PREDATOR feel to it!

    Also, you are my new best friend. Deal with it.
    Spleen,

    No worries about suffering the heartbreak of the slow hiss (of escaping dry nitrogen) when taking apart the LAM. It's rock solid (no gas pockets) inside. If applied carefully, acetone can be used to break down and wear away the cured epoxy without damaging circuits and circuitry. It's very slow work, though -- like melting a glacier with the heat from one's breath.

    I definitely wouldn't sacrifice a Model 400 to transplant the IR componentry to a Model 1450. It was a PEQ-14 (Model 1000, ILWLP) that I had pirated for the IR laser diodes and related.

    For the PEQ-15 pattern generators: if you cut a rubber band in half, thread it through the trigger guard, and tie both ends to the mounting loops at each of the pattern generator ... you can make an expedient "bikini" slip cover that will not require tape to hold the lenses in place.

    Sven

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sven53 View Post
    For the PEQ-15 pattern generators: if you cut a rubber band in half, thread it through the trigger guard, and tie both ends to the mounting loops at each of the pattern generator ... you can make an expedient "bikini" slip cover that will not require tape to hold the lenses in place. Sven
    I can't wait to try this!! You are the ****ing BEST! I was kind of thinking along the lines of sacrificing one of the PEQ15s by dremeling it to fit better but wasn't sure the best way to secure it. I bet a hair rubber band or something would be perfect for this!

    I got on here just to say what an amazing difference scotch tape makes on the IR illum!! I might do a double tape, as you mentioned. If I can unthread that screw holding the IR Illum lens in place, can I pop two tapes on that lens then re-set the screw to hold it all in there? Originally I just wanted to clean in there, but now that I have tape, I'd like it more permanent.

    Again, you are an absolute treasure to this community. Azumuth AGG and I have accounted for the bulk of LAM related answers over the last few years, but you blow our accumulated expertise out of the water!

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