Is there a shot count at which reliability is decreased? - Page 2
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Thread: Is there a shot count at which reliability is decreased?

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    YVK
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    Assuming that failure to function is not due to neglect of maintenance, stoppages are random events. Until wear and tear on a gun is significant enough that it affects tolerances and function, like it happened with ToddG's P30 at some 85, 000+ rounds. That said, the probability of parts breakage due to wear does increase with mileage, no rocket science here. Which is why my 24,5000 round P30 is a practice gun and 1000 round P30 is a carry gun.
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    Take care of your sidearm, and it will take care of you!!!

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    What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevef View Post
    I agree with you but there's no "variables" chart out there where you can plug in different scenarios. I'm just looking for ballpark numbers but the consensus so far is they're just damn reliable and the shot counts are very high. Thanks!
    That's because of the millions of rounds you'd have to fire to make any sort of trend. Then test again with multiple guns to make sure it wasn't just that gun. Then do it all over with all the options for different guns (P30, P30SK, P30L, safety or no, trigger versions, etc. then multiply by the variety of ammo available.

    Lets say the mean rounds before failure (MRBF) is 75k. Now you have 3 frame lengths, 2 safety options, and half a dozen triggers. 3*2*6=36 gun variations. OK some combinations aren't available so lets call it 25, even if you cut it down to, oh, 6 most common options, that's 75k*6 = 450k. Now lets say you're testing cleaning intervals of 100 rounds, 500 rounds, 1000 rounds, 2000 rounds. you're up to 1.8m rounds. That's a sample size of one, to be remotely indicative of a trend you ought to repeat the test a few times. lets say 5 of each and we're up to 9m rounds. now lets come up with some other variables: rate of fire (barrel temp), powder load, powder type, bullet weight, grip of the shooter, whether it's carried or not, physical trauma (of varying degrees). Now multiply that by how many different guns HK makes... If you want to start sending donations, I'd love to start testing
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sarge View Post
    What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
    Isn't this the "official" answer, as much as there can be one? Send your pistol back to HK for full servicing every 10,000 rounds. If they conclude that the pistol is beyond the point at which parts can be replaced to return the gun to reliable spec, they'll say so. Maybe -- probably -- that will never happen. But this would seem to be the correct way to ensure that your HK is in fighting form -- not waiting for some arbitrary round count number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Assuming that failure to function is not due to neglect of maintenance, stoppages are random events. Until wear and tear on a gun is significant enough that it affects tolerances and function, like it happened with ToddG's P30 at some 85, 000+ rounds. That said, the probability of parts breakage due to wear does increase with mileage, no rocket science here. Which is why my 24,5000 round P30 is a practice gun and 1000 round P30 is a carry gun.
    Have the same philosophy. I have one for heavy dry firing and range work. The other is light usage and carry. I've already broken a sear spring on the range gun at about 10k rounds, but I can't really account for the thousands of dry fires.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sarge View Post
    What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
    The only problem with the above is expense . I shoot 12 to 16 hundred rounds a month and the last time I shipped a gun it was 80 bucks one way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick101ABN View Post
    The only problem with the above is expense . I shoot 12 to 16 hundred rounds a month and the last time I shipped a gun it was 80 bucks one way.
    What is the problem, you are spending a hell of a lot more on ammo then the maintenance required to keep it functioning properly.

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    I have about 20k rounds through my VP9 in the last year and it's still going strong . I am going to give it an "overhaul " at the end of the Season to freshen it up

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    I'm going to try and anchor this back to a land of reality.

    NO semi automatic pistol of any design likes to run dry/without lube. Glock, HK, whatever. If you run a pistol dry at any round count you are running below optimum level. For some reason the extra fowling of the 45 ACP makes things worse. I've seen agencies send multiple recruits with the USP 45 and watched them all start with the failure to feed problems at nearly the same point. Same goes for the Glock 21's and the Sig 220's (regardless of new or W. German). This is due to the lack of care and if/when care is provided it's at the mercy of the garbage the agency/range provides.

    On the flip side of that coin, it's not hard to know how to properly lube your weapon and have it be slick and wet after 5000 rounds; I've done this multiple times at 3 and 4 day trainings and have no concerns about the gun.

    Old saying: take care of your kit and it will take care of you. It's nice to know what something could potentially do in theory; but I'll leave that to the internet sensations.

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