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Thread: A puzzle for you to solve if you can!

  1. #141
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    Default A puzzle for you to solve if you can!

    Quote Originally Posted by FS1 View Post
    This is interesting but would not be relevant in this case since the camera fired a strobe. When the camera knows it will fire the strobe it must be sure the entire frame is available for exposure. This may be why the Camera chose 125th of second. If the curtain was only a small slot when the strobe fired you would see the curtain. Or only a small slice of the frame.

    When the strobe is in play the first curtain opens fully exposing the sensor then the strobe fires and only after that will the second curtain drop. 125th of a second may be the setting that allows this. Otherwise on auto no strobe the camera would have chosen a much slower speed due to the lack of available light. Auto likely defaults at an ISO of 200. If the Camera was set to a higher ISO setting we may have have seen the hammer blur and the smoke.

    Does that make any sense? I'm old and when I was in school we used film and film speed was our ISO setting.
    This is correct for most DSLRs and the relevant D70 with standard flash sync. The D70 actually has a surprisingly high maximum sync speed of 1/500th of a second. But as you mentioned, the sensor would be fully exposed during the duration of the flash firing. Newer cameras and flashes have ways of dealing with higher shutter speeds where the two curtains would be traveling together as a slit.

    In this case the camera would default to a reasonable hand holdable shutter speed unless it was set for slow sync or slow rear curtain sync.

  2. #142
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    The hammer only touches the firing pin when operated normally, until the recoil moves the slide and barrel back. If the primer was strong enough to drive the hammer back then that would be evident on the firing pin indentation mark, or lack of one, on the primer. Since the primer marks looked normal...
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  3. #143
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    Watch this video starting at 44 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSmC8A1pNsU

    1. the gun fires
    2. the hammer rapidly moves back from very slight backward movement of the slide, (kind of like flicking something with you finger)
    3. then the flash generates
    4. and finally the slide starts to move back

    Drops MAG and walks off of the stage!!!

    err I mean MIC LOL

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  5. #144
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    I'm late to the game here but here is what's happened (if this has already been proposed I apologize).

    1) The shutter speed of the camera was slow enough that it spanned the length of time from before the hammer dropped to the time than the bullet exited the barrel. I don't know how long...it could be maybe 0.1 seconds or so.
    2) The flash fired when the hammer was still back (flash durations are exceptionally short)
    3) While the shutter was still open the round fired, the bullet exited the barrel and there was a muzzle flash. The muzzle flash was significantly brighter than everything else which is why the still-open shutter captured it and not the dropped hammer.

    With muzzle flash still visible the slide has not had enough time to cycle and re-cock the hammer. Have a look at the first part of my video below–on the desktop version of youtube you can pause then frame advance back and forth with the "," and "." keys.


  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel1959 View Post
    It's NOT the "moment of ignition". The bullet is downrange, the fireball is extant, and the weapon has already cycled, hence, hammer back. Your wife has not yet reset the sear for the next round.
    That's exactly what I thought when I saw the image. :)

  7. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaMamaSeeta View Post
    That's exactly what I thought when I saw the image. :)
    I respectfully disagree—the muzzle flash happens much quicker than the slide cycling. Have a look above at my explanation.

  8. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by orfeo View Post
    In fact, here's another pic showing a moment immediately after recoil ... Notice how far off-target she is.



    She would be less off-target if she didn't tea-cup the pistol and instead gripped it with her palms coming together on either side of the grip. This would help her manage the muzzle flip more effectively.


    Quote Originally Posted by FS1 View Post
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  9. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by orfeo View Post
    Why is the hammer back?


    Answer is simple. The CCD type sensor is being over driven. The order of events go like this,

    You press the camera trigger at near fraction on second after the trigger is fully depressed.
    Camera starts to open the the shutter
    flash happen while the hammer is still back, but motion has started.
    the light from the flash hit the gun and returns before hammer motion is notice able.
    While you claim not to see ghosting, I see a clear ark line showing top of the hammer travel path visible. Along with line of the slide on the other side.
    With the shutter still open the hammer has fallen triggering the round to fire
    The bullet has exited the barrel, as the fire ball is visible. Most likely the bullet is hiding behind this, thus not visible as the light from the flash has flooded the ccd sensor.
    Shutter closes and you move on to the next image.

    In all a well times image. A newer camera with a faster more responsive sensor (CMOS) would give you a more defined event image. Mostly this is just about as good as you could do with the tech in that camera.
    Last edited by S_Phoenix; 03-09-2017 at 12:44 AM.
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    Nugent replied, "They aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is, 'What am I going to eat next, who am I going to screw next, and can I run fast enough to get away.' They are very much like the French in that way

  10. #149
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    Hey Dragonfly, you posted a really great explanation. Thanks for that! I think you're right. Shutter speed and curtain sync with flash definitely came to play. I forget if it's first curtain or second curtain sync that the flash has to be set to in order to capture the image as you've described. Might depend on the camera as to which is the default so unless the person photographing purposely set the camera up with the intended sync setting, it was sheer luck that such a cool image was caught.

    Thanks for the explanation! (And for being so respectful. I don't read tones into posts since much of the communications I do in my field of work are via written form since my job is one of global leadership, but I see a lot of people reading into things online and that can get people into unnecessary tiffs.)

    The OP makes me want to set up some camera gear at Uncle Bob's property this summer, and see if I can get some images like his post. :)

  11. #150
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    Disregard earlier post, Phoenix nailed it.

    Default on flash is what, 1/125 second?

    Shutter opens
    Flash illuminates gun with hammer back.
    Image goes dark.
    Shutter still open.
    Hammer falls, ignites powder, bullet exits barrel.
    Shutter still open.
    flash exits barrel ( a secondary illumination on CCD sensor )
    Shutter begins to close.

    You can say that two images were recorded during a single exposure, the initial intended exposure and before the shutter closes the powder flash appears.
    Remember, the bullet will travel about 10 feet in that 1/125 of a second. A lot happens in that brief moment.
    Last edited by Bronzie; 03-11-2017 at 08:59 PM. Reason: better understanding of subject matter

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