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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel1959 View Post
    It's NOT the "moment of ignition". The bullet is downrange, the fireball is extant, and the weapon has already cycled, hence, hammer back. Your wife has not yet reset the sear for the next round.
    This is why.

  2. #82
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    Orfeo,

    You can pull the EXIF data quite easily through http://exif.regex.info/exif.cgi (I am not affiliated with this site, and it's free). Just point to an image, or choose the image on your computer, and it provides all available EXIF data.

    Thanks for posting this. It has been a wonderful distraction.

  3. #83
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    She had a lot of oil in the barrel and the glow is the oil burning off?

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  5. #84
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    Cool

    Okay. . . I guess everyone's had a chance to weigh-in on this before I put forth my own opinion as promised. Forgive me if I don't explain my theory perfectly though, and try to bear with me as best you can:

    3two8
    JNAP94
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    The above four people seem to be in a similar camp as I am on this.

    I think it's the firing pin. When I first considered that, I didn't really want to believe it because I didn't think the FP had enough mass. But in fact, it weighs 113.6 grains (about as much as a 115 grain bullet). The hammer hits the firing pin and then stops against the slide while the firing pin continues some distance under it's own inertia, against the force of the firing pin spring, to exit the firing-pin-hole in the breechface and strike the primer. The explosion then causes the case-head (the base of the cartridge case) to slam back against the firing pin first due to head-space (the allowance between the case-head and the breechface) and then into the breechface itself. At the same time that the case-head is slamming the firing pin backwards, the firing pin spring is starting out compressed and wanting to spring back. The heavy firing pin moves backwards with alot more force from the violent explosion than it had when it was moving forward from the hammer-strike. . . plus it now has no firing pin spring to dampen it's rearward travel before it strikes the hammer.

    I also think it's the slide-transmitted-shockwave. Another possible factor to induce the hammer going back is the fact that it is resting on the slide at the time of the case-head explosively slamming into the breechface. The shockwave traveling through the slide may also knock the hammer back (just like those desk toys with the hanging steel balls, where you let one swing into the group and the shockwave travels through the line of balls to only disturb the last ball at the other end). Actually, I think the shockwave alone could be enough to explain the hammer going back, even without the firing pin striking it.

    So there you have it. My very in-elegant explanation of my theory. Based upon almost a decade of consideration. . . I think it's either the firing pin striking the hammer, the slide-transmitted shockwave to the hammer, or more likely both factors together.

    Last edited by orfeo; 01-19-2017 at 11:54 PM.
    HK is the way!

  6. #85
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    Why or how is that unique to the USP?

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighCaliber View Post
    Why or how is that unique to the USP?
    I don't actually think it is unique to the USP. I suspect that it is widespread, but I really can't say.

  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by orfeo View Post
    I don't actually think it is unique to the USP. I suspect that it is widespread, but I really can't say.
    By the way, thank you.

    This was a great way for HK fans to get through SHOTSHOW week.

    :)

  9. #88
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    Fascinating theory!!!

    Tony

  10. #89
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    I pulled up the metadata, by the link Hexley supplied, to find the exposure data that was needed for this problem.

    1/125th of a second, which is quite long relative to what's going on here. It takes on the order of a thousandth of a second for a dropped hammer to ignite the primer and the bullet to exit the barrel. Since the exposure ended with the fireball, most of the picture is preignition.

    10 or 12 lb of force from the hammer spring, short distance to travel, light mass of the hammer so very fast acceleration... the fall time can be calculated, or may be published, or could be observed on similar guns in high speed video. It's really fast though. Fast enough for various firearms to have very high cyclic rates, and fast enough that hammer fall time is only a small part of the overall cyclic time for various firearms seen in high speed video.

    If it's not slower than 1/125th of a second, then the exposure started with hammer back. So we see hammer back.

    It's a flash picture.

    If the exposure started with the flash but the flash didn't last the entire time, then the hammer back position was the only one illuiminated by flash. Or even if the flash sustained throughout the 1/125th of a second, the hammer would appear in the hammer back position for the reasons I previously stated -- too little time in the hammer down position to "count," too fast a movement when moving to make a noticeable blur.

    Photography explains it.

    And it's a good thing.

    If the hammer really were flung back, against the hammer spring, so violently by shockwave or via the firing pin that it was in the returned position by the time the bullet barely left the barrel (fireball only just appearing) then not only would that be a great deal of force involved, but now the hammer spring would do nothing to help slow slide return.

    The hammer spring is a very major part of the designed controlled return of the slide.

    I don't think HK blew the design... regarding hammer return, I fully expect the USP works like pretty much all other semiautos. Slide return cocks the hammer, not shockwave or firing pin.

    Of course each will have their own opinion on likelihood of mechanism, but I'm saying the photo is not evidence of an unusual mechanism because the exposure is too long. It shows only that the hammer was back in the same 1/125th second as the fireball appearing, which would be expected.
    Last edited by trenace; 01-20-2017 at 12:26 AM.

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel1959 View Post
    Until the projectile leaves the barrel, you see nothing.
    But there is some combustion clearly visible just prior to the projectile leaving the barrel and either at the time of ignition or mmediately after, as proven by the high speed video I posted from customuzzlebrakes.com

    I can even see the projectile going through a ring of fire as it exits the barrel.

    There is also one after which I believe the case in Orfeos picture is.
    Last edited by HighCaliber; 01-20-2017 at 12:18 AM.

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