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Thread: What the heck is a SFP9???

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    VP9 ≠ SFP9

    For all practical purposes the VP9 and SFP9 are equivalent as @ricky_bobby suggests. However...

    • The SFP9 is the model name throughout Europe and also Canada. Not sure about other regions - HK's literature just says "outside the US". Both models also come in .40S&W cal. but this discussion will highlight the 9mm versions.


    • The SFP is actually slightly lighter (by about 40 grams) than the VP9 as the VP was designed for slightly hotter ammo (specifically, VP9 is certified with 3.1 Impulse ammunition and SFP9 is certified with 2.6 Impulse, CIP, NATO & TR ammunition. Both models are approved for SAAMI ammunition pressures, but the SFP is not rated for +P or +P+ ammo).


    • Published data suggests the VP9 is 0.5mm longer and wider, but this could be a matter of how precise they chose to make the publicly available data.


    • The SFP9 is available with push button mag release and also with ambi safety. As far as I know the VP9 is not available with these features.


    • The cosmetic design of the "ears" on the slide (the charging assist thingys - Charging supports) is also slightly different than the VP9. The VP9 charging supports are simplistic while the SFP9's supports are stair-stepped. That said, there are plenty of examples of the SFP9 (NIB) with the "U.S. style" charging supports. Here are pics of the two styles:

      Attachment 159513Attachment 159521
      Attachment 159529Attachment 159537



    • SFP9 is available in RAL8000 ("Green Brown") and black, but not OD or gray like the VP9. The VP9 is not available in RAL8000, only in RAL7008 ("Khaki Grey"). Also, the magazine floorplate of the RAL8000 SFP is color matching whereas the VP9's mag plate is just black.
      Here is a picture of the differences in color*:

      Attachment 159505
      Left SFP9 in RAL 8000 right VP9 RAL 7008 back straps.


    • The SFP9 has a few more variants than the VP9. Both come in SK variants. But the SFP9 has a 'M' variant (Maritime), an 'OR' variant (Optical Ready, HK's language), 'L' (Longslide), 'SD' (schalldämpfer - suppressor). As of Dec 2017 these variants are not offered in the VP9 line.


    • The SFP is offered in two trigger configurations: TR-Trigger (30-35 N) or "Special Forces" SF-Trigger (20-25 N). The VP9 trigger is published in only one configuration of 24 Newtons pull weight


    • Unlike the VP9, the SFP9 comes with factory test target in the box




    As @TooSixy and @chuckster62 indicate, these won't be importable. Thanks for bringing up a sore subject you two!

    Also, here is a link to the SFP9L https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/prod...-overview.html

    Here is the SFP9 dealer card:
    Attachment 159497


    *picture courtesy of @chuckster62
    What on Earth in this list of differences could possibly be considered evil enough to make it non-importable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    Both models are approved for SAAMI ammunition pressures, but the SFP is not rated for +P or +P+ ammo
    You can shoot +P and +P+ in SFP from safety point of view (it will handle pressure with zero problems), but lighter slide means increased slide velocity. This can lead to reduced expected life of recoil assembly, slide and even frame. Also it can have reduced reliability, as mags with worn out springs can not feed ammo in time for slide to pick it up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooSixy View Post
    Yes, if you can find somebody to import it, but I wouldn't recommend MarcDW LOL
    Grrrrrrr!!! That SOB beat me out of 2k for an elite 9mm. Still makes me absolutely crazy. Not so much about the money, but man do I want that gun. Big lesson learned for me. I trusted him because he was a vendor on the site. Should of done some research. Now I'm out 2k and not likely to get a nib elite 9 anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    What on Earth in this list of differences could possibly be considered evil enough to make it non-importable?
    Must be the charging supports. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooSixy View Post
    Must be the charging supports. LOL
    They are quite aggressive looking. You might get a scratch from the first "step"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    What on Earth in this list of differences could possibly be considered evil enough to make it non-importable?
    While the Eruo shade of black on these guns is even more evil than the US version, the issue is not about the gun. The SFP9 was banned from import because HK got pissed off at the importer who was in the process of bringing them into the US. I don't really know the details of why. Anyway, HK asked the ATF to disallow the importation of the SFP and ATF was more than happy to comply. They didn't need a reason like "it's more evil than the VP9", it was sufficient for HK to say "this gun is not for sporting purposes" (or whatever) and ATF stamped it a 'no go'.
    This is my own speculation, but I wonder if there was some motivation by HK to not allow intermixing of SFP and VP9 in the same market for some reason. Anyway, "no soup for you!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    You can shoot +P and +P+ in SFP from safety point of view (it will handle pressure with zero problems), but lighter slide means increased slide velocity. This can lead to reduced expected life of recoil assembly, slide and even frame. Also it can have reduced reliability, as mags with worn out springs can not feed ammo in time for slide to pick it up.
    Well, you can shoot +P and +P+ in any gun the manufacturer says not to and you might or might not get away with it. At the HK VP Armorer's Course students are told +P and +P+ in the SFP9 is verboten. If you want to assert otherwise, by all means, but that doesn't change the fact HK says not to. I know they have said not to do it in other models as well. I also don't doubt if you yourself have fired such ammo successfully from a SFP. Again, doesn't mean that the wear on the gun isn't excessive given the original design parameters. It's not my fault if HK decided that you Europeans aren't manly enough to shoot +P+ like us VP9 wielding American Cowboys.
    Anyway @Montrala I'm gonna go listen to 40:1 by Sabaton now while caressing my VP9 and wishing it was a SFP...

    Quote Originally Posted by TooSixy View Post
    Must be the charging supports. LOL
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    I'm pretty sure the VP9 isn't officially rated for +p+ either. The manual simply says "brass-cased ammo manufactured to SAAMI specifications" which if I'm not mistaken +p+ is NOT.

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    IIRC, and as many forums mention, Klaustrophobia is correct, as there is no SAAMI standard for +P+, most manufacturers including HK (I checked VP9, HK45, Mk23 Owners Manuals) say including +P but don't mention +P+
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    @Klaustrophobia and @WolfieRules I'm not a reloader so don't really know much about SAAMI parameters. I agree with your comments about what's published. The +P and +P+ info comes from HK's VP9 armorer course. I wonder if there is a way to convert the "impulses" measurement published by HK (which I think is a measure of acceleration) to PSI which is what +P and +P+ is measured in I think. I Googled and didn't find any ready converters. That might be the more scientific way to know the answer.

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    @omega21 , found this on SAAMI website, been long time since I did math this complex, http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

    That said, as armorers course said no +P or +P+ for SFP, most I'd go is +P, here's pressure chart by SAAMI, including +P, as there's no standard for +P+ it's up to whomever loads it, could be 5% or 50% over +P, which is why most OEMs won't certify their pistols for it, http://www.saami.org/specifications_...essureData.pdf

    HTH

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