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Thread: What the heck is a SFP9???

  1. #21
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    @omega21 , found this on SAAMI website, been long time since I did math this complex, http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

    That said, as armorers course said no +P or +P+ for SFP, most I'd go is +P, here's pressure chart by SAAMI, including +P, as there's no standard for +P+ it's up to whomever loads it, could be 5% or 50% over +P, which is why most OEMs won't certify their pistols for it, http://www.saami.org/specifications_...essureData.pdf

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    @omega21 Kinetic impulse (change of momentum) is easy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_(physics) ). In our case initial momentum is 0 in our plane of reference. For our use it is same as "Power Factor" in IPSC/USPSA or IDPA. It is V0 velocity in meters per second multiplied by bulleg mass in kilograms. Impulse 3.1 for 115gr (7.5g) bullet means V0 of 413m/s (1355frps). This means PF 155,825 (divided by 1000 for IPSC/USPSA). When you put 124gr you will get that it will be 1257fps ammo to get this factor. For SFP9 2.6 impulse means Power Factor 130,691. Still hot enough.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfieRules View Post
    @omega21 , found this on SAAMI website, been long time since I did math this complex, http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

    That said, as armorers course said no +P or +P+ for SFP, most I'd go is +P, here's pressure chart by SAAMI, including +P, as there's no standard for +P+ it's up to whomever loads it, could be 5% or 50% over +P, which is why most OEMs won't certify their pistols for it, http://www.saami.org/specifications_...essureData.pdf

    HTH
    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    @omega21 Kinetic impulse (change of momentum) is easy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_(physics) ). In our case initial momentum is 0 in our plane of reference. For our use it is same as "Power Factor" in IPSC/USPSA or IDPA. It is V0 velocity in meters per second multiplied by bulleg mass in kilograms. Impulse 3.1 for 115gr (7.5g) bullet means V0 of 413m/s (1355frps). This means PF 155,825 (divided by 1000 for IPSC/USPSA). When you put 124gr you will get that it will be 1257fps ammo to get this factor. For SFP9 2.6 impulse means Power Factor 130,691. Still hot enough.
    Thank you gents! Much appreciated. Will try and review this weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    @Klaustrophobia and @WolfieRules I'm not a reloader so don't really know much about SAAMI parameters. I agree with your comments about what's published. The +P and +P+ info comes from HK's VP9 armorer course. I wonder if there is a way to convert the "impulses" measurement published by HK (which I think is a measure of acceleration) to PSI which is what +P and +P+ is measured in I think. I Googled and didn't find any ready converters. That might be the more scientific way to know the answer.
    Interesting. It's always nice to have a look 'behind the scenes' so to speak and glean little bits like this HK doesn't own up to to the general public. Lawyers and whatnot. Thanks for sharing. Just to be clear, you're saying the armorer's course says VP9 is in fact 'rated' for +p+?

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    @Klaustrophobia - at the course they said the SFP9 is not rated for those pressures. Not that the VP9 is. I suppose you can infer from that that it (VP9) is. You can also see what James has to offer - he is a HK master armorer

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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    While the Eruo shade of black on these guns is even more evil than the US version, the issue is not about the gun. The SFP9 was banned from import because HK got pissed off at the importer who was in the process of bringing them into the US. I don't really know the details of why. Anyway, HK asked the ATF to disallow the importation of the SFP and ATF was more than happy to comply. They didn't need a reason like "it's more evil than the VP9", it was sufficient for HK to say "this gun is not for sporting purposes" (or whatever) and ATF stamped it a 'no go'.
    This is my own speculation, but I wonder if there was some motivation by HK to not allow intermixing of SFP and VP9 in the same market for some reason. Anyway, "no soup for you!"



    Well, you can shoot +P and +P+ in any gun the manufacturer says not to and you might or might not get away with it. At the HK VP Armorer's Course students are told +P and +P+ in the SFP9 is verboten. If you want to assert otherwise, by all means, but that doesn't change the fact HK says not to. I know they have said not to do it in other models as well. I also don't doubt if you yourself have fired such ammo successfully from a SFP. Again, doesn't mean that the wear on the gun isn't excessive given the original design parameters. It's not my fault if HK decided that you Europeans aren't manly enough to shoot +P+ like us VP9 wielding American Cowboys.
    Anyway @Montrala I'm gonna go listen to 40:1 by Sabaton now while caressing my VP9 and wishing it was a SFP...



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    Who was designated the importer of the SFP9? Enquiring minds want to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    @Klaustrophobia - at the course they said the SFP9 is not rated for those pressures. Not that the VP9 is. I suppose you can infer from that that it (VP9) is. You can also see what James has to offer - he is a HK master armorer
    I see what you're saying now, thanks! I don't really plan on ever shooting +P+ so it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to me, but it would have been interesting to know HK supported it on the DL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    Who was designated the importer of the SFP9? Enquiring minds want to know.
    SFP9 was never destined for the US market, it was always going to be a gray market import. MDWGUNS imported one and sent it in for approval. To my knowledge it was never returned to him.

  10. #29
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    I've created a new thread in the Library section with detailed info and pictures about the differences between the SFP9 and VP9.
    https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-refere...wo-models.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    While the Eruo shade of black on these guns is even more evil than the US version, the issue is not about the gun. The SFP9 was banned from import because HK got pissed off at the importer who was in the process of bringing them into the US. I don't really know the details of why. Anyway, HK asked the ATF to disallow the importation of the SFP and ATF was more than happy to comply. They didn't need a reason like "it's more evil than the VP9", it was sufficient for HK to say "this gun is not for sporting purposes" (or whatever) and ATF stamped it a 'no go'.
    This is my own speculation, but I wonder if there was some motivation by HK to not allow intermixing of SFP and VP9 in the same market for some reason. Anyway, "no soup for you!"



    Well, you can shoot +P and +P+ in any gun the manufacturer says not to and you might or might not get away with it. At the HK VP Armorer's Course students are told +P and +P+ in the SFP9 is verboten. If you want to assert otherwise, by all means, but that doesn't change the fact HK says not to. I know they have said not to do it in other models as well. I also don't doubt if you yourself have fired such ammo successfully from a SFP. Again, doesn't mean that the wear on the gun isn't excessive given the original design parameters. It's not my fault if HK decided that you Europeans aren't manly enough to shoot +P+ like us VP9 wielding American Cowboys.
    Anyway @Montrala I'm gonna go listen to 40:1 by Sabaton now while caressing my VP9 and wishing it was a SFP...



    They will cut you like 8 1/2 X 11
    You couldn’t be any more wrong than you are. Hk didn’t ask ATF to not allow the SFP9 into the US. MDW tried to import it as it comes from Germany. As the VP9 sits it isn’t importable in the way we see it on store shelves.


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