At my lgs this morning browsing and noticed a new HK45C selling for $699. I handled it for a bit and noticed that the slide had no serial number, date code etc. It was completely blank on both sides. The frame was stamped saying it was made in America. I've never seen a blank slide before. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this possibly one of the cost saving methods HK is using that brought us these new lower prices? I handed it back to the associate and decided not to buy it at the moment. Something just didn't feel right...
Cross Creek put this out when the price cuts were announced. It's legit.
I think we've all used to the SER#, proof marks, and manufacturing identifiers on the pistols, even those previously US made. I'm with ya, I like the markings but there is no impact to operation or quality, let's just hope HK GA got it right and these pistols are as well made/tuned as the German ones.
If HK expands beyond HK45s to P30s, P2000s, VP9/40s, USPs...this will be the reality unless we are loud enough to let HK know we want words and numbers on the side of the slides...I think we do.
BMW and Mercedes both have assembly plants here in the USA. It’s (presently) the same thing with US branded pistols.
The new guns, at the new plant, might be a different thing altogether.
It's human nature that the experience of the machinists, metalugists, and gunsmith experience in Germany gives them an edge definitely during the start of the US operation in process and qc if nothing else. Hopefully, quite a few German employees got work Visas and are assisting for the foreseeable future.
It has been publicly stated that HK engineers are here in the U.S. assisting the operation. No doubt the Germans have what is likely the very best (along with Austria) industry for engineering of specialized parts like firearms. Does that training pipeline and the wages of those professionals cost money, absolutely.
I'd guess Germans assigned to Columbus, GA long term would qualify for hazard pay. Bet you can't get a decent wienerschnitzel within 500 miles of Columbus. lol Imagine the culture shock those poor bastards will have to endure!
A Visa is not exclusive to residence status, relative to your citizenship it is a customs/immig doc as-required at US Port of Entry. As a US passport holder, I never needed a Visa to enter Europe/Asia during my semiconductor days.
I wouldn't be surprised if Germans didn't need a Visa either, if they did a Co sponsored work Visa holds weight = economic investment for the US (ie money talks). The port Immig Officer would proabably give them a 5yr stay.
Wasn't my meaning to make this a visa thread, but a foreigner needs a work visa to work here. It's public record. My question is how many German HK machinists and such are building our guns?
L-1 (intra-company transferees)
An L-1 visa is required if you are the employee of an international company which is temporarily transferring you to a parent branch, affiliate, or subsidiary of the same company in the United States. The international company may be either a U.S. or foreign organization. To qualify for an L-1 visa, you must be at the managerial or executive level, or have specialized knowledge and be destined to a position within the U.S. company at either of these levels, although not necessarily in the same position as held previously. In addition, you must have been employed outside the United States with the international company continuously for one year within the three years preceding your application for admission into the United States. You may only apply for an L-1 visa after your U.S. Company or affiliate has received an approved petition from USCIS, either on a "blanket" or individual basis.
2) Specialized Knowledge Staff (L1B)
This category covers those with knowledge of the company's products/services, research, systems, proprietary techniques, management, or procedures. Staff in this category are issued an L1B visa, initially for three years extendible to a maximum of five years.
I don't disagree.
Albeit in the late 90's, I've worked in Stuttgart (and with Japanese colleagues/citizens in the US). The German/Japanese/Korean execs who came had nothing but their non-US/Visa foreign passports, stamped with a US Port of Entry I-94 record.
Given immig law, our lawyers handled these. I see the blanket L-1. Where is the subsection for Germans/Germany (or Japan/S.Korea/Taiwan/etc.)?
I'll try 1 more time. I actually had a company with Visa required employees, have met with lawyers, read what was copy and pasted.
Buuut, can anyone, or does anyone know HOW MANY HK employees from Germany are here, at the plant, making our guns?
This is not an immigration issue or troll. My thoughts are that if they sent a team of experienced employees, and the parts are the same, we shouldn't see any difference.
It also would be helpful for all the posts I see questioning the qc issue. As some have posted, a German HK45C is preferred over the US made. I'd like to see more than anecdotal evidence. The line employment figure would be enlightening.
A video from Shot 2018 interview within the HK booth mentioned that some core staff members were brought to the US (1 of them were the key designer for the G36). Hope this info helps.
... if they sent a team of experienced employees, and the parts are the same, we shouldn't see any difference.
Agreed. And back on topic.
There are other threads from US-owners who have not seen/experienced a quality difference.
It is said the same DE worker works/assembles the same pistol from start-finish.
I just picked up an HK45c USA made yesterday and despite being sick I put 100 rounds of Geco 45 through it. It's my first HK in 45. I love it so far, can't wait to shoot the rest of the case of 45 and then many more after that!!
I am sure it saves them time not having to put serial numbers on barrels and slides and then organizing them and making sure they get in the right frame and time is money. US does not require serial numbers on slides and frames and makes it easier to deal with warranty/repair issues in the owners does not get pistol with mismatched serial numbers if frame, slide, or barrel need replacing. SIG initially started with triple serial numbers on the P229 and that only lasted a few years. I expect HK has new state of the art milling machines and other needed equipment in Georgia and I expect US made HKs will be sweet.
I'd still like it to be proofed but I'm not at all sure what's required for that.
Hell, I'm for making Citizens for anyone who works in the small arms industry (and are pro gun and pro liberty) if they work in Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Belgium, England, Israel, South Africa, Australia,... y'all get the point. [emoji6]
HK has built several thousand HK45s and HK45Cs in USA. and I have never heard of a single issue unique to them. I am very confident that HK can build firearms in their Georgia plant that are at least as good as the German made ones. Very likely the machinery in Georgia is more modern state of the art.
I am a huge HK fan, and own many. That won’t change. But to say German, Turkish, and other migrant workers in Germany can assemble HK pistols better than workers in the U.S. is pretty ridiculous.
I understand the need to have German engineering oversight, but we build some pretty great things here in America. I’m confident the guns will be just fine.
I own HK’s made in both countries and am a not seeing any problems.
A collector will want what they want, and I find no fault in that. But for everyday use, I think we’ll all be just fine.
Wilcox was assembling HK45 and HK45CT pistols here for some time now...
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