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  1. #121
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    HK likes to release mature products. Taking their time allows also to see what didn't work for competition. Problem with plates flying of Glock M.O.S. prompted HK to delay release of HK OR to investigate causes and apply lessons learned to their design.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    HK likes to release mature products. Taking their time allows also to see what didn't work for competition. Problem with plates flying of Glock M.O.S. prompted HK to delay release of HK OR to investigate causes and apply lessons learned to their design.
    And that's why I keep buying Hk's:) I know when they do come out they will be good to go. In the meantime I have invested pretty heavily in the SIG 320x5 while waiting for the vp9L lol:)

  3. #123
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    If can’t be mature if it hasn’t been released.


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  5. #124
    YVK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    HK likes to release mature products. Taking their time allows also to see what didn't work for competition. Problem with plates flying of Glock M.O.S. prompted HK to delay release of HK OR to investigate causes and apply lessons learned to their design.
    Meanwhile, tomorrow is Saturday, a match day for many of us USPSA shooters. Thousands of men and women will go out and shoot. In my squad alone there will be two master level shooters with MOS Glocks, very well used, with properly torqued and secured plates, and nothing will fly off. As it hasn't for many-many more who have invested in a quality torque wrench and some loctite, along with a primer. Meanwhile, since after the appearance of OR on HK website, yet another US company, with engineering and production capabilities much less than those of HK's, made yet another alternative mounting option to MOS, completely different in design, and yet another European company, CZ, started to deliver their OR guns.

    Sorry, guys, two years into it I am not buying "not releasing immature products" anymore. It is either not a priority for them, or their resources are stretched, or something else.
    Last edited by YVK; 12-15-2018 at 06:40 AM.
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  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Sorry, guys, two years into it I am not buying "not releasing immature products" anymore. It is either not a priority for them, or their resources are stretched, or something else.
    I'm with you. I think their production priorities are just elsewhere -- likely a big government contract or something.
    Last edited by bastardsonofelvis; 12-15-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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  7. #126
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    As a long time Glock MOS and Walther Q5 multi optic user, there are definite improvements that can be made in better supporting the optic, having larger screws less likely to be stripped, and coexistence with a wider range of rear sights. I have no idea whether the delay is due to more HK engineering work, or regular HK “urgency.” I still remember waiting nearly five years for a V9 plate for my HK45 to materialize.

    The bad thing about HK product development is they seem to be detached from any sense of US urgency when it comes to responding to short term trends. That is also the good thing about HK product development.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    As it hasn't for many-many more who have invested in a quality torque wrench and some loctite, along with a primer. Meanwhile, since after the appearance of OR on HK website, yet another US company, with engineering and production capabilities much less than those of HK's, made yet another alternative mounting option to MOS, completely different in design, and yet another European company, CZ, started to deliver their OR guns.
    1. Not everyone uses torque wrenches and properly use thread locker, yet it should work for everyone. Also problem was not exactly in that, but in broken screws and stripped threads. That is why HK decided to move up a notch on screws size. But by doing so OR pistols left production queue and with all LE and mil sales HK got recently it's hard to put them back on production line and not screw delivery times on contracts.
    2. Other companies can afford to release product and meh... if it doesn't work, we will upgrade it along a way. This is a case both with Glock and CZ - both companies are known to release problematic products. HK can't afford that luxury, because once they did that, all confidence in HK build over decades is gone overnight and they can basically close the shop. Because HK sells on confidence. They can do small tweaks along the way (like with stronger recoil spring in VP9) but they can't afford anything to show up as plain wrong. Same philosophy applies for example to Aimpoint.

    TL;DR HK is taking time with everything, if you have problem with that, change brand to one that release "early access" products to everyone.
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  9. #128
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    I don't know if stronger recoil spring in the VP9 is a good tweak. Haven't heard anyone complaining about it being too weak. I thought that the gun was over-sprung to begin with.

    You kind of confirm my post of HK being stretched. However, they've to understand that delaying a release after publicly announcing a product is a very negative thing. They can take all their sweet time to develop it and it is understandable that designs might change after the announcement. However, should that happen, it must become their priority to rectify that. Reasons don't really matter. Release of a product on a website is a promise of impending availability, and breaking that promise for two years causes a direct loss of consumer confidence. That same confidence that you imply is very important for HK's business model.

    I have changed brands. No regrets so far. Still have one HK and still watching company's progress, mildly excited about the VP9-B but have gone away from HK mania. Quality and timeliness of response to market demands should not be mutually exclusive.

  10. #129
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    Well, I sort of see it both ways. I can understand that for modern production lines, you have them scheduled for months/years in advance. If you miss the slot, then it's a struggle to reschedule product in the short term. Of course, you can contract it out, but down that path lies a whole new set of dragons.

    This is exacerbated by the fact that large customers typically have very tight delivery schedules, and if you don't meet them, then the company is up for paying penalties. So, a "nice to have in the market" consumer product will take second billing to a time-constrained production run. Still, their tardiness in shipping product have saved me many thousands over the last few years (although quite a bit of money has gone to other vendors).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    1. Not everyone uses torque wrenches and properly use thread locker, yet it should work for everyone. Also problem was not exactly in that, but in broken screws and stripped threads. That is why HK decided to move up a notch on screws size. But by doing so OR pistols left production queue and with all LE and mil sales HK got recently it's hard to put them back on production line and not screw delivery times on contracts.
    2. Other companies can afford to release product and meh... if it doesn't work, we will upgrade it along a way. This is a case both with Glock and CZ - both companies are known to release problematic products. HK can't afford that luxury, because once they did that, all confidence in HK build over decades is gone overnight and they can basically close the shop. Because HK sells on confidence. They can do small tweaks along the way (like with stronger recoil spring in VP9) but they can't afford anything to show up as plain wrong. Same philosophy applies for example to Aimpoint.

    TL;DR HK is taking time with everything, if you have problem with that, change brand to one that release "early access" products to everyone.
    This is the best post I've seen on the forum in some time.

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