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Thread: VP9 and VP9L Optic Ready!

  1. #191
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    I think rails may be a coming trend. Lots of the new releases are dove-tailed for adding plates.


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  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Here are the benefits I see:

    1. Durability. It was designed from the ground up for riding a pistol slide, unlike the RMR (even the type 2 is a modified type 1 that was never meant to rise a slide). RMRs are more durable than the other common pistol-optics we see but it’s not on the level of any of the Aimpoint tube-style optics.

    2. Battery changes without losing zero from removing the optic. That is a thing.

    3. It’s a sealed unit, therefore the diode is protected from mud, dust, skin cells, water, etc.

    4. The exposed lenses are going to be replaceable while the inner lenses are sealed. This will provide protection to the important lenses while the outer are...say think of a sacrificial lens ala PVS14. This is said to be an affordable factory service. Scratches happen to RMRs.

    5. A better mounting system. It will be mounted by clamping as opposed to screwed down. From my experience, RMR screws are somewhat easy to have issues with, and having to take them on/off every six months makes it that much more likely to have an issue. My last battery change, I had to soak the screws for three days before they would budge due to rust.

    6. For defensive use, one can get away without a rear sight, allowing for an uncluttered view, simply by using the tube as if it were an aperture for the front sight.

    You say it looks “bulkier and heavier” but have job actually examined the measurements? It’s basically the same footprint, but it is a tube. It is 0.2 oz heavier than the Delta Point Pro.

    As far as “tube-effect” I’ve never experienced this with any optic. I have typically run both eyes open and the tube washes out. I see the target and a dot. If it’s not a problem with an M2 or a T1, I wouldn’t see this rig being an issue.




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    +1 On all of this. IMO, I never cared for RMR's, for the money they have way less features and are way more of a hassle than literally any other modern red dot.
    The Vortex Venom has auto-brightness, 14 hour auto-off and doesn't require removal of the red dot to change the battery.
    The Leupold Deltapoint shares many of the same features but has a 4 minute auto-off. My only knock against the Deltapoint is the 2.5moa dot compared to the 3 or 6 of the Venom, albeit the 4 minute auto-off and "auto on" from activity of the Deltapoint, imo, is preferrable.

    Not to derail too far into optic discussion, but I'd be happy for a move away from RMR's and toward another more feature rich optic as a base.

  3. #193
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    Why can't we have a VP9L-OR in one platform.
    That I'd be in for.

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  5. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post


    As far as “tube-effect” I’ve never experienced this with any optic. I have typically run both eyes open and the tube washes out. I see the target and a dot. If it’s not a problem with an M2 or a T1, I wouldn’t see this rig being an issue.
    I don't get a tube effect but I do have a measurable performance decline going from DPP to RMR to T1. No big diff when drawing statically at one target at the level of the line of sight, but when I do awkward targets, awkward positions, target transitions etc, it shows. RMR market share in a performance oriented competition community is about 5%. Everything else is larger screen RDS; to me it is a validation of my own testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by bpnkrtn View Post
    Could this "rail" for lack of a better term be directly milled into a slide?
    Yes. Various shops have been preparing for ACRO release and there are already photos of a direct installation of that optic.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo T. Baggins View Post

    The Vortex Venom has auto-brightness, 14 hour auto-off and doesn't require removal of the red dot to change the battery.
    The Leupold Deltapoint shares many of the same features but has a 4 minute auto-off. My only knock against the Deltapoint is the 2.5moa dot compared to the 3 or 6 of the Venom, albeit the 4 minute auto-off and "auto on" from activity of the Deltapoint, imo, is preferrable.
    Neither of these optics come close to reliability and durability of RMR. In about half dozen to a dozen of people who I know personally as DPP owners, not a single person has not had that optic not break. My first one broke within 5000 rounds. Twice. Somebody who posted in this thread broke eight of them, and three or four Venoms. I won't put either one on a carry gun even if somebody gave it to me for free.

  6. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post


    Neither of these optics come close to reliability and durability of RMR. In about half dozen to a dozen of people who I know personally as DPP owners, not a single person has not had that optic not break. My first one broke within 5000 rounds. Twice. Somebody who posted in this thread broke eight of them, and three or four Venoms. I won't put either one on a carry gun even if somebody gave it to me for free.

    I would totally agree. Of the currently available optics, an RMR is the only one I trust for a self-defense pistol.

    My first RMR, a type 1, I had a Glock 9mm milled for back in 2014. I have taken a couple classes with it, and done quite a bit of training on it. I don’t have an accurate count because I’ve transitioned to other guns for training since about May of last year. Before that I was shooting 200-300 rounds per week though it occasionally missing a week here or there during hunting season. When I started slowing down I had 25,000 rounds on it and ended up breaking the dingus on an overwatch trigger and shelved the pistol for a bit. I contribute longevity largely to bending the battery contacts, using Duracell batteries, and mostly to having the slide milled for the specific RMR I use on the gun.

    I haven’t heard of any DPP, Vortex, or Shield going that far.


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  7. #196
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    In my circle of a first-hand, personal knowledge sample of dozen or so owners and probably 30-40 DPP units (all of us have more than one), there was one unit that went 20,000 rounds, and maybe two that went more than 10,000. Everything else went down before. There is some evidence that directly milled last longer than adapter plate mounted but it is not an absolute statement.
    Vortex seemingly has even shorter life span but our sample size is smaller.
    Shield's sample size is even smaller but it is an intriguing optic. An industry insider (I know, I know) conveyed that Glock bought a bunch of them for their demo units and not one broke. A dude who milled one of Glocks for RMR talked to them at the SHOT yesterday and supposedly they are going to bring out a glass lens option later this year, which would be awesome.

  8. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Plenty of older shooters, including myself, are appreciative of the RDS. It’s quite helpful for aging eyes.
    Yeah, this was to be my first RDS pistol.
    My eyes are aging whilst I'm waiting :-)

  9. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavizard View Post
    Why can't we have a VP9L-OR in one platform.
    That I'd be in for.
    You just need to wait. It's coming soon(tm) ;)

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    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Hornady, Khales & Typhoon Defence brands in Poland

  10. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Plenty of older shooters, including myself, are appreciative of the RDS. It’s quite helpful for aging eyes.


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    This was my one reason for trying out a RMR

  11. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    You just need to wait. It's coming soon(tm) ;)

    I got my LGS to reach out to HK with a re-affirmation of my order. Prices on the various models (including on the plates) are all known.

    NO delivery date.


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