finally had a chance at the LEM; to me, it felt very much like my walther P99 in AS mode or a PPQ with a longer take up. I know to most, this is probably not the case, but I am not comfortable carrying a firearm with this type trigger. If I go with a V3, are wolf springs available to lighten the DA pull? It sure seems over sprung.
So have you narrowed your choice down to a P30SK or are you still debating a P30SK vs a P2000SK? Because if you still are, I think it's redundant to start another thread besides the one you already have, unless you're attempting to run up the post count.
Heyas Rascal- yeah, I kinda thought that was what you were gonna end up equating it too. Thanks for posting that tho, it's good to have a better idea of it that I can transfer the idea in my head to actual experience.
I am not sure what AS mode is, as I have no Walther.
I disagree that the LEM is unsuitable for carry. There are two weights to LEM. v1 LEM (Light), V2 LEM (Heavy).
Getting a v3 DA/SA and lightening the trigger immediately does not strike me as a more comfortable choice for carry, in my opinion.
P30sk in v4.1 LEM has a slightly shorter take up than v1, but uses the medium trigger rebound spring.
BP- Here's a decent vid. He starts to get into the meat and potatoes right around 3:10 in the vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ffj0bTjW-8
To sum it up, AS mode is technically a single action, since the striker is cocked. So in that, it's definitely NOT like LEM. But it's a very long, very smooth, almost non-existant weight, til you hit the point where the trigger COULD stage, if you stopped it there. (If you're intending to fire, it's just like hitting the wall on a VPx. Pull through that, till you hit the wall (Which on a Walther P series....is actually kinda easy to miss, it's so light IMO) then snap, bang. VERY short reset, (if you ride the reset) snap bang.
But really, what we're talking about is the feel of the pull. Not so much the mechanics of the operation. Because yeah.... there's all kinds of different things with the p99 and the trigger.
I dunno, it's kinda like what they say about LEM. Ya have to experience it to understand it I guess.
Rascal- If you're gonna get it, get it. Then try out the HK spring kit (sans the trigger return spring, you know about that) and see how that goes. If you still don't like it after running a few boxes through it to smooth it out. Even if ya end up not liking it, ya KNOW you can get a good price off it here on the boards
AS is Anti Stress.
It’s actually a good comparison, the P99-AS is the striker version of the LEM (and the DA version of the PPQ).
a.) If you have the P99-AS and don’t like it, you’re quite accurate you won’t like the LEM.
b.) The P2000SK is just another version of the P30SK.
c.) LGS dry fire all you want is one thing, live fire is another.
LEM vs. DA/SA, LEM is actually more SD oriented, you can take it from LGS to CCW. DA/SA you need to train. It is what it is, no tool is perfect for all – why you tell the wife you need several.
I don’t do mods for CCW/SD, that’s circumventing (hacking) what HK already spent time/money on.
Bought a 30SKs/DA-SA/Ambi Safety/DeCocker: Execellent safety features, SA was OK but the DA was long and heavy. Don't wanna carry cocked and locked.
Later got a 30SK LEM v.1 Lite: Perfect for me and the trigger weight/travel seems very good for my needs. I highy recommend it, FWIW.
"Tuning" the 30SKs is not a cheap proposition and most decent 'smiths here have a long backlog. The Lite LEM is worth checking out, right outta the box.
Yeah, I was going to add that possibly the P30skS DA/SA with decocker and safety, if you are sure that LEM is not for you.
Still, I'd stick with HK springs, in whatever combination fits your needs best.
I may have missed the original thread, but are you specifically looking for a double action or hammer fire? I feel as though every DA is going to have that long take-up as compared to striker fire options.
For me, the long take up gives an additional margin of safety(preferably,the take up would be more like a sig p250 rather than ugly heavy). Again for me, strikers are nice range guns, but the light trigger with very short take up is like carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked.MHO
I have shot my son's Wather P99 AS quite a bit and own a PPQ. IMO HK LEM is quite a bit different that the Walther P99 AS trigger. The P99 trigger in single action mode is quite a bit lighter than my P30SK LEM where P99 is about 4 lbs and P30SK LEM is closer to 6 lbs. Also the P30SK is kind of a 2 stage trigger. The P99 AS trigger take up weight is almost zero right up to the trigger wall while the P30SK LEM builds weight pull gradually well before the wall. Of course HK LEM also has an external hammer to put ones thumb over when holstering and also as a visual clue that the trigger is being moved.
The P99AS is one of my carry guns, but never in AS mode; 'had a PPQ, but never carried it--traded it for a sig P229 that I'm practicing with. However, I would still like another CCW. The P30SK V3 I tried was not nearly as smooth as the Sig P229.
I have been looking in to getting a variant of the P30sk but reading these post I am more confused which would be best for me. On another forum I was told that LEM was far better but now I see there are different styles of that. Maybe the SKs or VP9SK would work better for me now!
Rascal- it's all good bro
I mean don't get me wrong. I'm not saying "Hey, it's an HK go out and buy it". I know that a lot of us don't have a whole lot of disposable income. Just saying, that if you do, you know you can recoup a lot of what you'd spent on it.
Me personally, I dunno. I can't say one way or the other, cuz I've only picked up a p2000, and that was once, somewhere around 20 years ago. I've heard tons of good things about them, I've "read" that their triggers are better than the ones in the p30, and know the opinions around here that the ergos are quite good. Accuracy is of course up to HK par. Which is more accurate than the most of us can shoot, without a rest. Sadly, in a lot of cases tho, the usual advice there, doesn't apply. "Go try one". There's not as many of them around in stores anymore as their used to be.
I will say that it took a fair amount of shooting for either 1.) the trigger to lighten itself or 2.) me to get used to the LEM. Dry firing helps (https://grayguns.com/dry-fire-secrets-of-the-pros/). The LEM is an acquired taste, in my experience.
I understand the OP's reservations but I will say that my P99 and LEM H&Ks have what I consider to be the 2 best carry triggers in existence followed closely in the #3 position by my Sig P229 DAK. They really are the perfect compromise between a light striker trigger and a DA/SA hammer trigger. The biggest thing is with these three trigger systems, despite their little differences with one another, is that practice is paramount. Now that I have become proficient with them, I prefer them.
I will say, I have a vp9sk with an ultra match spring kit in it.....love it
I also have a walther CCP with polished and modified trigger and sear components......love it
I am in the 7 day waiting period for my p30sk v1 lem, but from what i have handled of this gun, I beleive that I will love it too, maybe a little differently, but just as much as all of my children.😉😉
I went to the range today and brought my V1. My friend bought his V3. I shot the V1 better, especially on the first shot. Once you get used to a LEM, it's a good trigger.
My brother has this and accordingly, “The PPQ is the replacement to a problem that didn’t exist”. I agree and if I did pick up a striker, it would be the P99-AS/FS.
The P99 default carry mode is just that, Anti-Stress DA. Similarly, you carry an HK in SA with S-On (which I don’t even do with my USP9c, I carry it DA/S-Off).
Folks labor over the HK DA/LEM pull design. HK knows this, the first shot is the ‘stress’ shot. Practice/enroll in a timed combat/SD drill... What heavy DA pull? What long LEM pull?
Or heck, what is the problem flipping the S off on a 1911?
My brother has this and accordingly, “The PPQ is the replacement to a problem that didn’t exist”. I agree and if I did pick up a striker, it would be the P99-AS/FS.
The P99 default carry mode is just that, Anti-Stress DA. Similarly, you carry an HK in SA with S-On (which I don’t even do with my USP9c, I carry it DA/S-Off).
Folks labor over the HK DA/LEM pull design. HK knows this, the first shot is the ‘stress’ shot. Practice/enroll in a timed combat/SD drill... What heavy DA pull? What long LEM pull?
Or heck, what is the problem flipping the S off on a 1911?
Wow, that may be his opinion but certainly does not reflect how the PPQ is outselling the P99 AS buy a very massive amount. Not everyone is fond of the heavy and long first decocked DA trigger pull on the P99 AS which is how Walther recommends using the P99AS and there is a warning in the owner manual to be sure to decock the P99 AS before holstering.
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