No warranty offerings?
U called/emailed service?
Just to h sure?
From the look of the broken pieces...that washboard pattern. That is something that started off small and over time, got worse. That was not a failure that happened quickly.
Very dissapointing to see one with such a low round count, break apart like that.
No warranty offerings?
U called/emailed service?
Just to h sure?
FAMILY, faithfulness, compassion, honesty, empathy, trust, hockey, single malt Scotch 21+, Heavy Metal music, German, Irish, Belgian, English bier, what else is there...?
If anyone here has measured the compacted recoil spring length and the buffer length you would know the buffer does nothing whatsoever. The compacted recoil spring length is longer than the buffer which obviously means it will work the same with or without the buffer. I replace spring every 3K rounds on my HK's, none of which are 9mm's.
P2K 40/357/40T RCM tube
P30L 40/357 RCM tube/40T RCM tube
VP40/HK 40T tube
Certainly a possibility.
Now, I dug deeper and I believe what caused the premature fracture of the spring(in all other industries, 50k cycles is nothing for a good quality spring, so I figure that if mine broke at 30K there must be a reason). So hear me:
There are 3 main types of springs: cylindrical(think CZ75 type, where the spring is basically a coiled wire), flat(like the one in my gun where the spring is a coiled flat piece of metal) and woven(think Sig P226 3 strand spring).
Now, in industry it is accepted that the woven is the best followed closely by flat, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE NO FOREIGN BODIES BETWEEN THE COILS. If there are foreign bodies between the coils, the woven one will eat itself, the flat one will fracture prematurely as the foreign body will act as a fulcrum between 2 adjacent coils at maximum compression(this can be mitigated by lubricating the spring to reduce friction and aid it clean itself). Cylindrical springs do not suffer from this as the cylindrical coils will effectively clean themselves each cycle.
Personally I believe that woven is the best for a reliable gun as it almost never fails catastrophically(the strands break one by one so if you inspect it you still can run the weapon until you get a new one). The disadvantage is that once grime entered between strands it is hard to take it out and it will keep eating them-this is why woven springs are ideal in clean or wet environments, and if you look at Sig springs that have not been replaced every 5k rounds or so you might notice that one or 2 strands are broken but the weapon still functions(I suspect this is why some Sig's manifest frame cracks).
As my gun was not clean, and also due to the design the spring is covered at the rear motion by the recoil buffer, so I guess that a piece of hardened carbon got between the coils and caused them to break.
So, note to self: even if the gun is dirty, make sure that the spring is clean and lubed so that it can expel foreign bodies from between the coils.
Not a carry gun. Range toy.
I happen to know a range gun(SF9) that went well beyond 50k rounds and still has the original RSA. It ran at least as dirty as mine for the whole time. I suspect that the spring did not fail because it was generously lubed and it lacked the recoil buffer so any grime got expelled easier.
What broke in that gun: part 13 Pressure spring for slide release broke around 15k-20k, crocodile pin fractured in 3 parts, but kept running as the inner pin was holding it in place until at cca. 30k it broke. The trigger bar spring got separated from the barrel like retainer one end- fixed with a bit of resin, the striker spring broke(nobody knows when) 3 coils at one end-took the small broken part out as it had a sharp corner that was eating the plastic retainer, assembled and it runs as new, no light strikes, no malfunctions whatsoever. Now, finally the trigger bar spring broke in 2(remember-woven spring, dirty place...)
Last edited by serghey24; 05-20-2019 at 09:59 AM.
Can not rule that out but my cleaning procedure includes a thorough examination of the gun: non stress areas visually, high stress areas(including the one that fractured) get visually inspected with a magnifying glass. There where no cracks that I could see at the last clean-up(close to 2000 rounds before it broke). Can not rule out internal cracks and/or smaller than visible under magnifying glass.
Last edited by serghey24; 05-20-2019 at 02:49 PM.
I don't feel that you did anything wrong, nor do I think the manufacturer did.
By the standards I see on other gun forums over the years, your barrel and spring have lived to a ripe old age. Especially the spring.
Most manufacturers require springs be changed at 3-5,000 rounds. I know of none that don't consider a barrel worn out at 25,000 rounds.
When I read that a 90 year old man has passed, I don't think "What a shame, he was so young".
I do have empathy about the time and expense you face with repairs.
I could spend $200 on a barrel and spring, and get them in under 7 days.
But, your restrictions weren't set by HK.
I think, in the end, you will find your options to be replacing the barrel and spring.
Maybe I keep my guns clean, I’ve never seen gunk collect enough between the recoil spring pitch to cause breakage. Or you’d have to dunk your gun in mud to introduce a foreign object lodged in-between the coil, such would have to exceed the compressive 9mm 35K-psi force. And I would think carbon/soot would break off at the first cycling.
The recoil buffer has no direct function with the spring, as all it does is limit the travel of the slide. The buffer ID is loosely/larger enough to accommodate the lateral action/movement of the spring OD. Of interesting note, the P30L has a metal collar reinforced buffer.
I have the wound springs in the .357 Desert Eagle, P226 and M11-A1. I can see its use on the DE, but I wonder why on the Sigs – rated 5K vs. HK 10K flat spring. I tend to favor the HK flat design, it (should) sheds debris (maintenance) and has a stronger cross-section per mass (longevity).
Agreed. But we have been spoiled with modern weapons that, at least in handguns tend to have barrels that last forever. And in my experience pistol barrels maintain accuracy beyond 100k mark, even longer if they are polygonal. I am not talking bullseye accuracy. More like IDPA accuracy.
If you shoot for a while, there will be tiny, sand grain like, residues inside the gun. And they tend to stick. they dimension does not have to be substantial(I estimate under 0.5 mm), but when the coils are pressed flat one to another you can imagine there will be a punctiforme shearing load on the coils. And the granules are indeed tough as I believe they are made basically of carbon and/or brass fragments(resulted either from the crappy brass some producers use or I suppose from the anvil of the percussion cap). Also, the fragments do not have to be tougher than the spring steel as even if they get smashed, there will still be a shearing force transmitted to the coil. Ant it tends to be cumulative.
About the recoil buffer: I said that its presence might impede totally or at least partially, the debris evacuation from between the coils as it acts like a cover. What Ian state is that my P30L's RS was dirtier than my Grand Power's RS under the same cleaning/lubricating regimen.
From a statistical point of view, flat springs tend to work better if the user accepts that when they will fail it will be sudden and without warning, I agree as the relative deformation is smaller for a given travel. Would springs have the advantage of giving you a bit of a warning when they start to fail. And that can be invaluable in some cases so maybe Sig values this characteristics. The relative short suggested life I guess has to do with 2 aspects: first the replacement spring is bought by the user so Sig will not have anything to loose if the user buys more spring, but they could loose a lot if springs break at inappropriate moments and/or frames crack prematurely.
I have the P30/P30S both V3. Assuming a <10K spring I am not aware it fully compresses flat, nor do I think it does. But net net I surmise it as a fluke, a man-made machine subject to manufacturing fallout. The P30 90K torture did not have a RS failure but for an off-spec and replaced at 10K, if I recall.
Warranty is an institution in the US so everything simply has one, build/sell it and they will come (with manufacturers laughing all the way to the bank). A golf ball with a warranty is better, how can you not pay more for the assurance.