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Thread: Well......I may be the first

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCTICDETH View Post
    @navyman8903

    Standard HD sights?
    Or those newer smaller front sight XR series?

    I’m looking at several of the XD XR sights for multiple.

    Not a big fan of adjustable myself.
    Only prob is the cost for multiple.
    They are the standard HD sights, I haven't played around with the XR's yet. I like the air in the standard HD's it just fits my eye and experience so far. I did really like the straight 8's on my HK45 before the front sight slid off and I couldn't find a allen wrench to fit it (I have hundreds of them and I do lots of gun work). The standard HD's are thicker for sure than the straight 8's, but I seem to be able to group with them still. I might give the XR's a try one day.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    What's your beef with adjustable sights?
    I've had a few sets break on me or start to work their way out. Additionally the rear sight valley is always too short for me. I feel like I'm driving a diesel truck with a race car seat in it. I keep trying to look over the valley to see the front sight. I've really started to gravitate to "U" notch rear sights and the meprolight night sights. I'm not sure why I am that way, but I've always had that issue. HK tac sights, and these HK adjustable sights never worked well for me, they really cost me time on follow up shots.

  3. #23
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    Nice!!
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  5. #24
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    @navyman8903 I put factory Meps on my VP9L... The HD's don't look as tall on the L as the otherwise do on a non L. I kinda like them and may have to make the change, but then I need 5 sets... Maybe I'll just stay happy with the Meps and call it good.
    Remember, you're not alone in hating the factory adjustable sights. I shot them once and had a set of Meps on the way that afternoon.
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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSO264 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    Not seeing any advantage there. I guess if you really hate your pistol shooting POA=POI then by all means put fixed sights on it.

    I guess mine will be needing new irons as well since it will be wearing an ACRO P-1 soon.

    Going to carry the long slide anyway, I’m not convinced that slide cuts are realistically going to make the pistol unreliable. How long has the Beretta 92 been working with a totally open slide top?

    hah, hah, hah, hah, ahhhhhhhhhh, hah, hah, hah.........

    all HK handguns are sighted POA=POI. that only changes if you specifically get sights that are set up for "pumpkin and post" sighing...

    oh, and @navyman8903 knows what he is doing....
    My VP9 LE came shooting to the sights pretty well with quality 125gr ammunition out to 50 yards. At 25 yards groups have been spot on for elevation hitting to the top of the front sight post, which is my preferred hold with iron sights. Windage needed a very very slight drift of the rear sight to the left, maybe .015” to get perfectly centered.

    The 135gr +P I am using for carry prints higher by about 1.5” at 25 yards and fortunately windage is the same. But there is still a deviation.

    Using 115gr range ammo gives a slightly low point of impact probably about under the tritium dot on the front sight. Windage with all the brands I’ve tried, as well as a reload using the Hornady 115gr HAP have shot about 1-1.5” right of the groups with 125gr or 135gr ammunition.

    So please tell me again how HK pistols are perfectly sighted at the factory? HK does a pretty good job of getting the end user serviceable iron sights that will hold the center of a B27 or “A” zone on an IPSC target at 25 yards if the shooter is capable, and kudos to them for it.

    However, that doesn’t satisfy me personally, I’m admittedly picky, I used to shoot bullseye competitively. So I tend to incorporate bullseye targets into my range work to keep that skill alive, and it is incredibly annoying to have a pistol capable of good precision, which both of my current HK’s are, end up being inaccurate on the scoring rings and drop points because I can’t easily make fine adjustments to the sights.

    There is nothing that will piss a guy off more at the range than burning a nice tight group into the black a couple of inches out of the 10 ring, repeatedly in the same spot and not being able to quickly adjust the sights for that load. I don’t mind re-zeroing my carry ammo before leaving the range, and in my experience with good adjustable iron sights that track consistently, most will return to a prior zero on the clicks no problem. Now whether the LPA sight on the VP9 long slide will do that I cannot say, I know Bomars will, as well as the adjustable rear sights on Hammerli’s, Benelli’s, and Pardini’s.

    If you’re satisfied with fixed sights then hooray for you, I just enjoy pushing the distances out a bit more than some people. So an adjustable sight makes that easier. With that in mind I’m having my long slide milled for an ACRO P-1.

    Now if I could just get all of the 5 yard failures at my local range to stop making expensive noise long enough for me to get my 25 yard and 50 yard targets up I’ll be all set.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb_D View Post
    @navyman8903 I put factory Meps on my VP9L... The HD's don't look as tall on the L as the otherwise do on a non L. I kinda like them and may have to make the change, but then I need 5 sets... Maybe I'll just stay happy with the Meps and call it good.
    Remember, you're not alone in hating the factory adjustable sights. I shot them once and had a set of Meps on the way that afternoon.
    I will be interested to hear how your shooting experience goes with the MEPS, part of me wanted to go that route. If you could keep me updated I would greatly appreciate it. We can compare notes.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    My VP9 LE came shooting to the sights pretty well with quality 125gr ammunition out to 50 yards. At 25 yards groups have been spot on for elevation hitting to the top of the front sight post, which is my preferred hold with iron sights. Windage needed a very very slight drift of the rear sight to the left, maybe .015” to get perfectly centered.

    The 135gr +P I am using for carry prints higher by about 1.5” at 25 yards and fortunately windage is the same. But there is still a deviation.

    Using 115gr range ammo gives a slightly low point of impact probably about under the tritium dot on the front sight. Windage with all the brands I’ve tried, as well as a reload using the Hornady 115gr HAP have shot about 1-1.5” right of the groups with 125gr or 135gr ammunition.

    So please tell me again how HK pistols are perfectly sighted at the factory? HK does a pretty good job of getting the end user serviceable iron sights that will hold the center of a B27 or “A” zone on an IPSC target at 25 yards if the shooter is capable, and kudos to them for it.

    However, that doesn’t satisfy me personally, I’m admittedly picky, I used to shoot bullseye competitively. So I tend to incorporate bullseye targets into my range work to keep that skill alive, and it is incredibly annoying to have a pistol capable of good precision, which both of my current HK’s are, end up being inaccurate on the scoring rings and drop points because I can’t easily make fine adjustments to the sights.

    There is nothing that will piss a guy off more at the range than burning a nice tight group into the black a couple of inches out of the 10 ring, repeatedly in the same spot and not being able to quickly adjust the sights for that load. I don’t mind re-zeroing my carry ammo before leaving the range, and in my experience with good adjustable iron sights that track consistently, most will return to a prior zero on the clicks no problem. Now whether the LPA sight on the VP9 long slide will do that I cannot say, I know Bomars will, as well as the adjustable rear sights on Hammerli’s, Benelli’s, and Pardini’s.

    If you’re satisfied with fixed sights then hooray for you, I just enjoy pushing the distances out a bit more than some people. So an adjustable sight makes that easier. With that in mind I’m having my long slide milled for an ACRO P-1.

    Now if I could just get all of the 5 yard failures at my local range to stop making expensive noise long enough for me to get my 25 yard and 50 yard targets up I’ll be all set.
    I'll attempt to take a stab at what you're getting at here.

    So I get that you like the adjustability and I see what you're saying with the different loads. I exclusively use 124 NATO loads and 124+p loads. I've learned the POA/POI with HK sights across all the platforms with the sights I've chosen to run. For USP series guns the stock night sights usually run well for me, but I favor the sight picture, and the POA/POI of the Trijicon HD's. Even on tactical models. I have never once adjusted a rear adjustable sight. I don't like the rear notch either, they're almost always shallower. I might be retarded, but I need a deeper rear sight valley to reliably line up the sights on a pistol. I can't explain why, and I'm being serious about this not trying to be sh*tty. I can't really quantify how, but once I have a pair of sights on the pistol a couple of range outings and then I'm set for life on my holds. The VP/HK45/P30 series I've always liked and maximized the potential of the stock meprolights. They're not great for everything, but I can take them out to 100 yards reliably on a torso sized target. With some impressive for me accuracy out to 25, and "it ain't much, but it's honest work" accuracy at 50 and 75. I don't measure the groups though and that might be something I do in the future.

    So fast forward to the VP9L. The only experience I have with a gun like this is a G34 G4 with Trij HD's. Which I might ad shoot very high on the pistol. Despite being a taller sight, you think it would be the opposite, but it isn't for some reason. Everyone shoots high with them the farther out they go. I've learned to use them though, which has been a process. The same was true for the VP9L, it was favoring high, but it may have been the factory height. Additionally I found the sight picture did not fit my eye which slowed me down tremendously. Same with the stock tactical sights on my USP9SD, and my buddy's USPT 45 I shot. I hate them, they are not intuitive for me to line up effectively and I genuinely struggle with them.

    So ultimately the reasons I chose the HD's on the VP9L slide is because I know the sight picture works for me, for competition shooting and for "tactical" or self defense shooting. As well as the height I was hitting with the stock adjustable sights will hopefully be remedied with the higher value the Trij HD's offer. I may have over shot it possibly and the meps might be a better choice. But I will find that out in Testing, and hopefully @Robb_D can compare notes with mine to see what is best for the good of the order. Because everyone doesn't run dots, or adjustable sights.....so someone might be looking for a suitable fixed sight replacement.

    In closing, I also don't own a gun I won't shoot or a gun that if absolutely pressed (the VP9L is a terrible choice) I can run whatever I have in a serious capacity with little hesitation. I have zero illusions about the VP9L or the G4 G34 for that matter will not survive an actual military application. Maybe a tactical application, but not a military application for sure. BUT! If I had to I could do okay with it. So there is also a demand I've place to have reliable sights. So for all of the reasons I've listed above, that is why I have elected to change to the Trijicon HDs.

    Merica.
    Last edited by navyman8903; 05-25-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  9. #28
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    Hey! Hey! Mister! Easy on the adjustables Joe! I need something to blame my crappy shooting on! hehehehehehe!
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flagman View Post
    Hey! Hey! Mister! Easy on the adjustables Joe! I need something to blame my crappy shooting on! hehehehehehe!
    My bad brother lol.
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by navyman8903 View Post
    I'll attempt to take a stab at what you're getting at here.

    So I get that you like the adjustability and I see what you're saying with the different loads. I exclusively use 124 NATO loads and 124+p loads. I've learned the POA/POI with HK sights across all the platforms with the sights I've chosen to run. For USP series guns the stock night sights usually run well for me, but I favor the sight picture, and the POA/POI of the Trijicon HD's. Even on tactical models. I have never once adjusted a rear adjustable sight. I don't like the rear notch either, they're almost always shallower. I might be retarded, but I need a deeper rear sight valley to reliably line up the sights on a pistol. I can't explain why, and I'm being serious about this not trying to be sh*tty. I can't really quantify how, but once I have a pair of sights on the pistol a couple of range outings and then I'm set for life on my holds. The VP/HK45/P30 series I've always liked and maximized the potential of the stock meprolights. They're not great for everything, but I can take them out to 100 yards reliably on a torso sized target. With some impressive for me accuracy out to 25, and "it ain't much, but it's honest work" accuracy at 50 and 75. I don't measure the groups though and that might be something I do in the future.

    So fast forward to the VP9L. The only experience I have with a gun like this is a G34 G4 with Trij HD's. Which I might ad shoot very high on the pistol. Despite being a taller sight, you think it would be the opposite, but it isn't for some reason. Everyone shoots high with them the farther out they go. I've learned to use them though, which has been a process. The same was true for the VP9L, it was favoring high, but it may have been the factory height. Additionally I found the sight picture did not fit my eye which slowed me down tremendously. Same with the stock tactical sights on my USP9SD, and my buddy's USPT 45 I shot. I hate them, they are not intuitive for me to line up effectively and I genuinely struggle with them.

    So ultimately the reasons I chose the HD's on the VP9L slide is because I know the sight picture works for me, for competition shooting and for "tactical" or self defense shooting. As well as the height I was hitting with the stock adjustable sights will hopefully be remedied with the higher value the Trij HD's offer. I may have over shot it possibly and the meps might be a better choice. But I will find that out in Testing, and hopefully @Robb_D can compare notes with mine to see what is best for the good of the order. Because everyone doesn't run dots, or adjustable sights.....so someone might be looking for a suitable fixed sight replacement.

    In closing, I also don't own a gun I won't shoot or a gun that if absolutely pressed (the VP9L is a terrible choice) I can run whatever I have in a serious capacity with little hesitation. I have zero illusions about the VP9L or the G4 G34 for that matter will not survive an actual military application. Maybe a tactical application, but not a military application for sure. BUT! If I had to I could do okay with it. So there is also a demand I've place to have reliable sights. So for all of the reasons I've listed above, that is why I have elected to change to the Trijicon HDs.

    Merica.
    I can see where you're coming from.

    I'm going to carry my VP9 L because why not? I'm not in the USMC anymore doing work on a beach with a sidearm getting exposed to that kind of environment, nor do I plan to ever go back to Iraq where moon dust like sand is a thing. My infantry days are behind me. Since a Surefire X300U sticks out way past the muzzle on the VP9 anyway and I carry the gun just find AIWB in a PHLster Floodlight the long slide doesn't bother me and in my testing was noticeably more accurate.

    I do wonder how much detrimental effect on reliability the slide cuts on the VP9 long slide would have, I suspect it's not as much of an issue as we might think in the vast majority of conditions.

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