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Thread: SA/DA or LEM P30L

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasGuzz View Post
    Between drshame/post-10 and Dve/post-7 it’s described very well. But there is no substitute for hands-on, even if only LGS handling/dry-fire.
    Another question is what do you have other than HK DA/SA?
    I spend more time shooting high end 1911's and customized BHP's which all have exceptional triggers and of course they are all SA. I went to my LGS today, but they don't have any LEM pistols. Neither do the ranges that are near me in Northern VA. I'm considering buying one of each. At least then I would have some time to decide which one to keep or maybe keep them both. Of course, I will have to wait until my dealer gets them in.

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    I did find an HK 45 V1 LEM listed on one of the boards that is local. 100 rounds through it for $550. Everyone happy with the 45 LEM? That would probably be the quickest way for me to get hold of an LEM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by igs View Post
    Yup, LEM is a dumbed down system great for beginners that will quickly outgrow it, or lowest common denominator idiot proof "law enforcement".

    For a competition gun the long pull every shot makes it terrible.

    For a defense gun the light pull and no safety make it terrible.

    It's the worst of both worlds. Period.
    Respectfully disagree. Having to disengage a safety on a carry/defensive firearm is a disadvantage. Unnecessary step keeping one from pulling the trigger. Why not carry with an empty chamber too? LEM may not be for everyone but I like it. It’s simple, consistent, and if you train regularly no slower than other trigger variants. I carry both TDA and LEM, no love for striker guns or 1911s except for range fun. I’ve no delusions of being the next John Wick and thus haven’t outgrown the LEM.

    Happy Shooting!

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  5. #24
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    I think of LEM as a striker fire with a hammer for all intents and purposes. It has a fairly light trigger pull with a bit of travel (which is I believe for safety given how relatively light the trigger is compared to traditional DA). Where it shines is in second strike capability; pull the trigger and no bang? Pull it again albeit with a heavier trigger. I am a DA/SA guy, but I think LEM is the best hammer fired mechanism for someone who wants a consistent trigger pull between shots, and the ability to get another bite at the apple without doing Tap/Rack if no bang. It especially shines compared to DA/SA in smaller/lighter handguns that are harder to operate in DA than their larger brethren.

    Will it convert striker lovers? Nah. But it's a good option to have to choose from for us hammer fans.
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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheignsaw View Post
    Respectfully disagree. Having to disengage a safety on a carry/defensive firearm is a disadvantage. Unnecessary step keeping one from pulling the trigger. Why not carry with an empty chamber too? LEM may not be for everyone but I like it. It’s simple, consistent, and if you train regularly no slower than other trigger variants. I carry both TDA and LEM, no love for striker guns or 1911s except for range fun. I’ve no delusions of being the next John Wick and thus haven’t outgrown the LEM.

    Happy Shooting!
    Agreed. Manual safeties are a liability in modern defensive pistols, it's another mechanical component that can fail (jam, not fully disengage, or worse) leaving you fumbling with a weapon when you need it most. Sure, one can train to disengage it as the pistol is being drawn, but that a.) takes the time commitment to do it, and b.) is adding a fine motor skill component to a technique that will be needed when adrenaline dumps are common. Where a manual safety shines is when it gives you a better trigger (SA), but I believe the juice isn't worth the squeeze. In a self-defensive situation I believe it is better to have a "worse" trigger than it is to add a manual task that can prevent the gun from firing. I put worse in quotes because in a combat situation a DAO and SA are going to serve equally well; this isn't competition, you need to get hits on target at (most cases) spitting distance. Plus in those situations there's no proof that a SA trigger is going to give any better accuracy (that can cause a difference) than a DA or LEM, again, adrenaline and you're dealing with a moving/acting target, not paper or steel.
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  7. #26
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    Scheisse, i could have swore i posted in here.


    you cant lose either way.

    I have both, prefer the LEM trigger, da/sa is awesome as well, and i can double tap/ triple better with the da/sa for now as im more accustomed to it.
    im getting much better with the LEM.

    you can stage yourself to the breaking point with he LEM ( if makes sense)
    thats why i love mine.

    enjoy it. the P30L is an amazing pistol, better than most other pistols out there !!
    FAMILY, faithfulness, compassion, honesty, empathy, trust, hockey, single malt Scotch 21+, Heavy Metal music, German, Irish, Belgian, English bier, what else is there...?

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by igs View Post
    Yup, LEM is a dumbed down system great for beginners that will quickly outgrow it, or lowest common denominator idiot proof "law enforcement".

    For a competition gun the long pull every shot makes it terrible.

    For a defense gun the light pull and no safety make it terrible.

    It's the worst of both worlds. Period.
    You need to shoot more and philosophize less. LEM does not require you to completely release the trigger. There is no long pull unless you want it. The trigger reset is a bit more than regular DA/SA, but it is not a full trigger pull.. so your competition remark is well taken, but a bit dubious because no competition guy would ever ride the trigger all the way home and re-pull. But that is neither here, nor there -- because LEM is a "law enforcement modification" - not a IPSC modification. This competition point is a nonsense argument.. its like saying an AK is terrible because you wouldn't want to compete for groups with it.

    As for defense -- striker fired pistols are rather popular for defense. They have no safeties, and also have a light pull. A lot of serious trainers recommend striker fired guns, particularly Glocks; yet the travel on a LEM trigger is longer, and less prone to user error than a striker fired trigger. So this is a nonsense argument as well.

    You are entitled to your opinion, of course -- but please spare me the hyperbole of anything other than your fave being "terrible."
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    You need to shoot more and philosophize less. LEM does not require you to completely release the trigger.
    So you keep your finger on the trigger the whole time. Throughout the entire course of fire. When switching targets. When moving between targets. When not shooting. Wow. You're right I really need to shoot more and philosophize less since that's not how I shoot.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by igs View Post
    Yup, LEM is a dumbed down system great for beginners that will quickly outgrow it, or lowest common denominator idiot proof "law enforcement".

    For a competition gun the long pull every shot makes it terrible.

    For a defense gun the light pull and no safety make it terrible.

    It's the worst of both worlds. Period.
    Generally speaking, I agree with this. The LEM is never going to win any speed records and it doesn't afford the user the deliberation of a DA.

    What it is good for is people who are too scared/wise to point a striker-fire at their junk for AIWB, but don't have time/desire to commit to DA/SA.

  11. #30
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    My experience with dak pistols made me hate the lem trigger without giving it a chance. Once I tried it, I was really impressed and can really see the benefit.

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