Thanks everyone. LEM reminds me of the trigger on a Kahr but maybe lighter. I don't carry for duty and don't care for DA/SA so I'll stick with my VP9.
It was intended for people (LE/Mil) who will potentially be covering (muzzling) people in the line of duty, and the LEM system offers a cushion of safety to aid in the prevention of shooting someone who doesn't need to be shot, hence the 'Law Enforcement Modification'.
It has traits of a SF gun (same pull every time) and a DA gun (length of pull), but is neither; that's what makes it truly unique. It's not necessarily better or worse than the other two, just different. **back to the speed issue with an LEM trigger. Although it was not designed with speed shooting in mind, a gun with a LEM trigger CAN be shot very fast, that is a fact. Go to GabeWhiteTraining.com and look up his shooting standards/awards, and you will see that a very experienced shooter from AZ, (GJM) won a Turbo Pin from Gabe White, using a USP w/LEM trigger. If you don't know what a Turbo Pin means, look it up, it requires a very high level of skill, and very few have won that award. Point is, although the LEM was not designed for speed, if the shooter does the work, and actually shoots the gun a LOT, very fast shooting can be done with it, but most people spend more time TALKING about their guns, and all of the mods they've done, as opposed to shooting it enough to truly know what the stock gun can do (drills, standards, etc.).
If you really want to understand the LEM, check out Darryl Bolke's comments at Pistol Forum, it's pretty much the definitive text on it.
Last edited by Dve; 06-26-2019 at 03:05 PM.
And I didn't ignore the idea about your points only applying to competition -- I didn't consider it -- because I find it absurd. I don't know how you run and gun competition guys do things. But I decock while on the move (if not shooting). And I safety my rifle as it comes out of my shoulder as well.
I see competition guys do stupid crap all the time that could get them killed or injured in a gun fight. Because in a game, its all about speed and no one is shooting back. So screw cover, just charge out there, and get the best angle on the targets and get your times down. Everyone does this.
I've never seen trash or other junk on a competition range. Not much to trip on. No reason to hit the dirt. No crowd of people jostling around, maybe bumping into you. No chaos at all, really -- sure go run around with a DA/SA cocked. Hell leave the safety off too and shave off .0001 of a second.
DA/SA guns have a better reset than LEM - go ahead and use it to decrease your split times. Train hard. You'll remember to decock during your game.
But will have you the presence of mind to decock your pistol after shooting the bad guy and now turning your attention to a wounded victim that you care deeply about. Or, seeing your son lose all his red stuff, will you just cram that cocked pistol into your holster trying to get your hands over his wounds .. only to find you just poked a hole in yourself too? How much do you want to be holding a cocked pistol when you're blindsided and slammed to the ground by the bad guy's buddy you didn't see coming?
In a real shooting -- the type of situations that the LEM is designed for -- that design is predicated on the basic notion that probably its the worst day of your life. And probably a whole lot more is going wrong than shooting at a bad guy. And probably your training is going to go all to hell under the stress. And probably you're encountering things you never trained for.
And during that time, what you really want is a simple to use pistol with a good degree of inherent safety, where one must deliberately pull the trigger, each and every time. DAO fits the bill -- but it isn't as nice to use as a LEM trigger.
'nuff said. LEM isn't the best for pew-pew games, but it helps to lessen the odds of even more things going sideways, when everything is already going wrong.
Last edited by sickness; 06-26-2019 at 04:58 PM.
LEM 4.1 all the way
Get the LEM variant 1 and convert it to a variant 4.1
LEM is terrible for the above situation because the trigger is light. Heavy LEM is ok but everyone here always recommends the light LEM.
But with the heavy LEM you have that long pull on every shot. So it still sucks.
SA/DA was fine back in the day before we had choices.
But now that we do, LEM is the only way to go.
Sold all my non-LEM HK’s and no longer have a desire to ever own another.