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Thread: will HK make a VP45?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoppes-no9 View Post
    By every single measure...
    ...ballpoint pens are superior to fountain pens
    ...digital watches are superior to mechanical watches.
    ...electric motors in cars are, or soon will be, superior to internal combustion engines.
    ...modern polymer/striker-fired handguns are superior to a 1911.

    But you know what? This guy sees value beyond numbers and studies, and derives a great deal of pleasure from using old-school stuff that is plenty good to get the job done.

    You can play the numbers-chasing game, and you will never be satisfied. 20 years ago the 9mm was dying in favor of the 40. Look where we are today. Fact is, they’re both great.
    Spot on, hence why when I go to work today, I will have my mechanical watch on my wrist and my .357 Sig on my hip. (Hammer fired of course).

    Nothing wrong with acknowledging that there is a place for 9mm/45acp/357/10mm etc. Everything has it's place and people like different things.
    Last edited by PorterM; 08-29-2019 at 01:21 PM.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    You realize that has nothing to do with the cartridge and likely more to do with the mechanical characteristics of the gun, right? Is your .40 and your 9mm identical? Notice you said the 9mm was faster. Yup!!! That’s why you’ll score better with it on standardized drills.

    I can take my 1911 out and shoot 96s on a B8 at 25 boringly. That doesn’t mean I “shoot .45 ACP better”. I could achieve the same scores if that particular gun were a 9mm or a .40. It’s just mechanically easier to shoot. Throw a timer on and say I have to shoot the B8 in ten seconds or less then all goes to crap. You should check out some standardized drills. Those are just useful for competitive shooters or door kickers, they can make you a better defensive shooter as well. Bullseye shooting doesn’t lead you down the road to mastery of your weapon.
    Why do you keep making this a horse race while riding a dead horse? LET IT GO !!!
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoppes-no9 View Post
    By every single measure...
    ...ballpoint pens are superior to fountain pens
    ...digital watches are superior to mechanical watches.
    ...electric motors in cars are, or soon will be, superior to internal combustion engines.
    ...modern polymer/striker-fired handguns are superior to a 1911.

    But you know what? This guy sees value beyond numbers and studies, and derives a great deal of pleasure from using old-school stuff that is plenty good to get the job done.

    You can play the numbers-chasing game, and you will never be satisfied. 20 years ago the 9mm was dying in favor of the 40. Look where we are today. Fact is, they’re both great.
    Here, here!! I vote we close this thread. I hope we didn't scare away the OP!!

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  5. #74
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    Yea, it had become a bit diverse.


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    Dobe

    Boycott Hollywood.

  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PorterM View Post
    Attempting to stay on the topic at hand...


    I like using .45 hard cast ammo for the backcountry or sometimes even .45 super in my USP. Who knows if it's actually more effective than some of the other choices used for that application but I like it, hence why a VP45 would be cool.
    I bought the USP 45 specifically for shooting 45 Super and hard cast for going to the ranch. I dont want to find out how well they against a mountain lion or bear... but I want to have what works.

    Turns out i shoot the USP 45 better on target than my USP 45 compacts and others... but that could be the difference between the LEM compact and DA/SA of the USP 45...
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  7. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    And because a stranger on the internet says something that flys in the face of common sense and physics doesn’t make it true either.


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    Right now I am shooting my Beretta LTT better than my USP 9mm... hmm. Can you explain that?
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  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    Perhaps. The gun probably would been better in Gen 1 phase but we'd still be in Gen 1 phase and it wouldn't be as simple or armorer friendly. I can point to some of the German/HK differences in the 416 vs. the M4 where they added complexity for no reason (like who TF pins the ejection port cover?). One of the benefits of the Glock is simplicity. HK isn't good at "simple".

    I think this is a big problem with HK. Glock gets roasted for their multiple "generations". But HK absolutely refuses to make modern adjustments on the fly. I literally am sitting here with a G19X, Beretta LTT Elite, and a 2019 production STI 2011 in this room. 10 or maybe even 5 years ago, you could not have paid me enough to touch ANY of these 3 brands. But all 3 have recognized (in varying degrees) what shooters (not gun-owners) require. The USP rail is the obvious worst offender, but what about that 45C light rail problem? What's been done for those DA/SA fans to make those variants less crappy without doing at-home experiments? How about those RDS-ready models...?

    HK...they put out guns that are ahead of the curve at the point release, but they never move it forward. Not hard to go from first to last when you stand perfectly still...:(
    I would love for an updated rail on the USP... down side is I own multiple USPs... And I would not want to replace them.

    The LTT and M9A3 are awesome. I am shooting them better than my USPs at the moment.
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  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkina View Post
    Right now I am shooting my Beretta LTT better than my USP 9mm... hmm. Can you explain that?
    Phenomenal trigger, ergonomics? Typically, heavier metal guns shoot much better for me. I can shoot a CZ as well as anything except my 1911s.


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  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Phenomenal trigger, ergonomics? Typically, heavier metal guns shoot much better for me. I can shoot a CZ as well as anything except my 1911s.


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    Then you ought to look into this:
    https://cz-usa.com/product/czc-a01-ld/

    It's heavy AF and has an SA trigger that will rival 1911's. It's to pistols what BR guns are to rifles.

    RE: Berettas...the cool thing about them is they aren't hard to work on and the trigger break is at the same point for DA and SA (not all guns are that way...some are better than others). God bless Ernest and his trigger job in a bag. If you can run a Glock well, you can run probaby a D-Spring Beretta without much issue. And this is just the DA...the SA is pretty good for a duty gun. Circling this back to HK; even the best DA/SA (Match) is a gritty, up-hill fight for ignition...just to get to the SA which in all but the Match/nickel sear variants has about the same grace as a worked-in Glock sporting a "-" disconnector.

    Not saying it's unusable...my protege' went into a Langdon class freshly going from a V9 (SAO) back to V1 DA/SA... raw/cold. He did quite well, but he's a motivated student of the gun that does 5-6 classes a year on top of his instructor/cop/swat cop/sniper duties. That said, he's LEM across the board now.

    I had to get back into this DA/SA hoopla after I overheard an instructor (half joking, half serious) tell some poor bastard cadet with an issued 96D that the best way to shoot the gun is to put it down and get a Glock...with no further advice. I thought that was complete horse****. When I got in, people were still getting used to plastic striker fires as everyone teaching then grew up with wheelguns and loved the 1911. Now it's all Glock, Glock, Glock. The DA/SA is becoming a the lost art. Case in point, this VP45 threads existence when HK has the market cornered on the 45ACP duty gun.
    Last edited by dms16; 08-30-2019 at 03:31 AM.

  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    Then you ought to look into this:
    https://cz-usa.com/product/czc-a01-ld/

    It's heavy AF and has an SA trigger that will rival 1911's. It's to pistols what BR guns are to rifles.

    RE: Berettas...the cool thing about them is they aren't hard to work on and the trigger break is at the same point for DA and SA (not all guns are that way...some are better than others). God bless Ernest and his trigger job in a bag. If you can run a Glock well, you can run probaby a D-Spring Beretta without much issue. And this is just the DA...the SA is pretty good for a duty gun. Circling this back to HK; even the best DA/SA (Match) is a gritty, up-hill fight for ignition...just to get to the SA which in all but the Match/nickel sear variants has about the same grace as a worked-in Glock sporting a "-" disconnector.

    Not saying it's unusable...my protege' went into a Langdon class freshly going from a V9 (SAO) back to V1 DA/SA... raw/cold. He did quite well, but he's a motivated student of the gun that does 5-6 classes a year on top of his instructor/cop/swat cop/sniper duties. That said, he's LEM across the board now.

    I had to get back into this DA/SA hoopla after I overheard an instructor (half joking, half serious) tell some poor bastard cadet with an issued 96D that the best way to shoot the gun is to put it down and get a Glock...with no further advice. I thought that was complete horse****. When I got in, people were still getting used to plastic striker fires as everyone teaching then grew up with wheelguns and loved the 1911. Now it's all Glock, Glock, Glock. The DA/SA is becoming a the lost art. Case in point, this VP45 threads existence when HK has the market cornered on the 45ACP duty gun.
    I haven’t got to play with one of those yet but the look quite nice. I’ve got a shadow 2 with their trigger work in it I run for USPSA. It’s a shooter. I agree with you in LTT. It’s on my short list with a TJIBA. I would say if I got to spec out a gun, I’d love to see a Shadow 2 in an aluminum allow with a decocker. That would be my ultimate carry gun....even above an LTT because it could be milled for a dot.


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