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Thread: Why do i suck at shooting HK pistols?

  1. #71
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    There is a lot of great responses here, being a novice shooter and running the gauntlet between my USP’s FS & compacts , P2000’s and P30’s in both 40 and 357 sig and VP9’s the best advice I’ve seen is stick to one model take a few quality instructor lessons and practice practice practice!!! The time you spend with the instructor is invaluable !!! Their there to help and will cut down the time you take to figure out hand and finger placement also setting up your aim.
    After that it’s all about how much brass your willing to dump. Once I had the basics down I found it easy to apply it to the rest of my pistols each a little different but the fundamentals across the board will serve you for life

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    You are overly excited, HK pistols are over the moon accurate. Don't shoot it like a Kimber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chui View Post
    HK could still address the DA pull. It can be better; much better. Still love their stuff.
    Couldn't agree with you more.

    But, HKs are designed to meet military/LE specs, and the long, hard DA pull is intended to meet those specs, not civilian needs. HK will not change this long-standing principle. And therein lies the rub with the DA pull for us civvies.
    MrShipwreck and Chui like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent04 View Post
    Couldn't agree with you more.

    But, HKs are designed to meet military/LE specs, and the long, hard DA pull is intended to meet those specs, not civilian needs. HK will not change this long-standing principle. And therein lies the rub with the DA pull for us civvies.

    This is rhetorical, but why in (nearly) 2020 is a long, heavy (in other words terrible) trigger pull considered Mil/LE spec?

    And don't cite me that paratrooper/fall from a helo nonsense people try to use. A usable, duty-grade DA trigger pull doesn't have to be what HK makes it. Other companies have proved otherwise. ...and that's all I'm saying about that.

    I know the canned response is "safety" as there exists this belief that Pvt/Ofc. Schmuckatelli is going to get that little bit of extra "oh wait...I almost made a boom-boom" time before miraculously recovering on what turned out to be a "no-shoot". I can see the thought process, but NO.

    The heavy trigger alone is not going to save that bit of shirt or jacket that gets snagged on re-holstering. A manual safety or thumb-on-hammer might help, but not mere trigger weight. 8lbs vs. 4.5lbs is not going to mean anything when said Pvt/Ofc. skins that pistol and smashes the ever-loving hell out of that trigger when it's "go time". I can tell you personally, that my officers least-skilled with a pistol that under simulation, I've seen computer-recorded times of "jailbait" splits. Mind you these are CO2 "blowback" training guns but they can still actuate a trigger in 0.16-0.18 seconds which (if controlled) is at the limits of human cognition (yes, people can go faster but at the expense of outrunning the internal STOP/GO reaction time).

    One can NOT buy skill, but one CAN purchase additional performance capacity (whether it's used or not is up to user skill/competence). Why deprive people of this?

    One would think that an officer with a more user-friendly interface would be able to be trained quicker and perform better. A lot of people talk about 1911 triggers as a "crutch"...F*** that noise. If you have a mechanical advantage (without sacrificing mechanical safety) and you can limit that time it takes the user to screw things up then that is value added. We aren't talking 20lb sniper rifles with 8 ounce triggers; we're talking 1.5lb pistols with at MINIMUM 4-4.5lb triggers. We are exerting 3x the force to make it going bang than it does to have the gun defeat gravity!
    Some call it "riding the bull"...would you rather have your par time be a 1 second ride or an 8 second ride to win? Far less time to have your ass thrown in a compressed amount of time, no?


    This Bad trigger = safe trigger nonsense needs to die. SHAME on anybody that forces this on a soldier, officer or consumer and says it's for the user's benefit/safety. A bad trigger does little but facilitate lesser performance. Lesser performance is going to create MORE problems than clean, accurate shooting when it's called for.
    Last edited by dms16; 12-27-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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  6. #75
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    same here. Im just not a pistol guy, put a RDS on my HK45C just to make me shoot somewhat well.

  7. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    This is rhetorical, but why in (nearly) 2020 is a long, heavy (in other words terrible) trigger pull considered Mil/LE spec?

    And don't cite me that paratrooper/fall from a helo nonsense people try to use. A usable, duty-grade DA trigger pull doesn't have to be what HK makes it. Other companies have proved otherwise. ...and that's all I'm saying about that.

    I know the canned response is "safety" as there exists this belief that Pvt/Ofc. Schmuckatelli is going to get that little bit of extra "oh wait...I almost made a boom-boom" time before miraculously recovering on what turned out to be a "no-shoot". I can see the thought process, but NO.

    The heavy trigger alone is not going to save that bit of shirt or jacket that gets snagged on re-holstering. A manual safety or thumb-on-hammer might help, but not mere trigger weight. 8lbs vs. 4.5lbs is not going to mean anything when said Pvt/Ofc. skins that pistol and smashes the ever-loving hell out of that trigger when it's "go time". I can tell you personally, that my officers least-skilled with a pistol that under simulation, I've seen computer-recorded times of "jailbait" splits. Mind you these are CO2 "blowback" training guns but they can still actuate a trigger in 0.16-0.18 seconds which (if controlled) is at the limits of human cognition (yes, people can go faster but at the expense of outrunning the internal STOP/GO reaction time).

    One can NOT buy skill, but one CAN purchase additional performance capacity (whether it's used or not is up to user skill/competence). Why deprive people of this?

    One would think that an officer with a more user-friendly interface would be able to be trained quicker and perform better. A lot of people talk about 1911 triggers as a "crutch"...F*** that noise. If you have a mechanical advantage (without sacrificing mechanical safety) and you can limit that time it takes the user to screw things up then that is value added. We aren't talking 20lb sniper rifles with 8 ounce triggers; we're talking 1.5lb pistols with at MINIMUM 4-4.5lb triggers. We are exerting 3x the force to make it going bang than it does to have the gun defeat gravity!
    Some call it "riding the bull"...would you rather have your par time be a 1 second ride or an 8 second ride to win? Far less time to have your ass thrown in a compressed amount of time, no?


    This Bad trigger = safe trigger nonsense needs to die. SHAME on anybody that forces this on a soldier, officer or consumer and says it's for the user's benefit/safety. A bad trigger does little but facilitate lesser performance. Lesser performance is going to create MORE problems than clean, accurate shooting when it's called for.
    This is a good argument and one I agree with. I think da pulls in the 5-7lb range would be perfect and should be the norm. I agree that a heavy da trigger is somehow safer than the first shot of a striker fired pistol is a silly one. I think it would be a big benefit to Hk to up their trigger game.
    Chui likes this.

  8. #77
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    Default Why do i suck at shooting HK pistols?

    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    This is rhetorical, but why in (nearly) 2020 is a long, heavy (in other words terrible) trigger pull considered Mil/LE spec?

    And don't cite me that paratrooper/fall from a helo nonsense people try to use. A usable, duty-grade DA trigger pull doesn't have to be what HK makes it. Other companies have proved otherwise. ...and that's all I'm saying about that.

    I know the canned response is "safety" as there exists this belief that Pvt/Ofc. Schmuckatelli is going to get that little bit of extra "oh wait...I almost made a boom-boom" time before miraculously recovering on what turned out to be a "no-shoot". I can see the thought process, but NO.

    The heavy trigger alone is not going to save that bit of shirt or jacket that gets snagged on re-holstering. A manual safety or thumb-on-hammer might help, but not mere trigger weight. 8lbs vs. 4.5lbs is not going to mean anything when said Pvt/Ofc. skins that pistol and smashes the ever-loving hell out of that trigger when it's "go time". I can tell you personally, that my officers least-skilled with a pistol that under simulation, I've seen computer-recorded times of "jailbait" splits. Mind you these are CO2 "blowback" training guns but they can still actuate a trigger in 0.16-0.18 seconds which (if controlled) is at the limits of human cognition (yes, people can go faster but at the expense of outrunning the internal STOP/GO reaction time).

    One can NOT buy skill, but one CAN purchase additional performance capacity (whether it's used or not is up to user skill/competence). Why deprive people of this?

    One would think that an officer with a more user-friendly interface would be able to be trained quicker and perform better. A lot of people talk about 1911 triggers as a "crutch"...F*** that noise. If you have a mechanical advantage (without sacrificing mechanical safety) and you can limit that time it takes the user to screw things up then that is value added. We aren't talking 20lb sniper rifles with 8 ounce triggers; we're talking 1.5lb pistols with at MINIMUM 4-4.5lb triggers. We are exerting 3x the force to make it going bang than it does to have the gun defeat gravity!
    Some call it "riding the bull"...would you rather have your par time be a 1 second ride or an 8 second ride to win? Far less time to have your ass thrown in a compressed amount of time, no?


    This Bad trigger = safe trigger nonsense needs to die. SHAME on anybody that forces this on a soldier, officer or consumer and says it's for the user's benefit/safety. A bad trigger does little but facilitate lesser performance. Lesser performance is going to create MORE problems than clean, accurate shooting when it's called for.
    Excellent!

    Thatís why I have moved to CZ P-07s and P-09s with Cajun Gun Works internals:

    8.5 lb, SMOOOOOOTH Double Action trigger and 3.5 lb CRISP Single Action trigger with a short, aggressive reset.

    In my opinion (like body parts...) if the take up is very smooth with little discernible stacking that 8.5 lb trigger is not appreciably slower than me running my Glock or my 1911.

    And itís s HELLUVA lot more satisfying to use; so much so I often just practice out of the holster, shoot, decock, reholster and repeat.


    EVERYONE HERE should try the P-07.

    Itís truly that good.

    And if you donít like it PLEASE contact me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Chui; 12-27-2019 at 05:55 PM.
    "Buy once, cry once; or not. Let's be honest for a second; most of you will be zombies one day and I'd much prefer you be zombies with crap weaponry."

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    This is rhetorical, but why in (nearly) 2020 is a long, heavy (in other words terrible) trigger pull considered Mil/LE spec?

    ….This Bad trigger = safe trigger nonsense needs to die. SHAME on anybody that forces this on a soldier, officer or consumer and says it's for the user's benefit/safety. A bad trigger does little but facilitate lesser performance. Lesser performance is going to create MORE problems than clean, accurate shooting when it's called for.
    No argument here.

    But the folks who can make this happen are, unfortunately, the ones not listening. And right now, no amount of ranting can change that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent04 View Post
    No argument here.

    But the folks who can make this happen are, unfortunately, the ones not listening. And right now, no amount of ranting can change that.

    A rather defeatist attitude. Perhaps someone could learn something to present an argument that's worth hearing...

    At least in LE, I can say that patience, timing, and a well-reasoned argument can make things happen. There's a lot of institutional inbreeding that comes from the perpetuation of myth because people just accept it. Spread knowledge and ideas...kill the myth.

    I've no idea of what change you're wanting, but I can certainly say doing nothing will yield nothing. I dunno...work has taught me that you never know what people need to hear and that even the most seemingly trivial statements can light a fire under someone...
    Last edited by dms16; 12-27-2019 at 10:37 PM.

  11. #80
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    Have you thought of getting professional instruction? If you don't have a real grasp of the fundamentals of shooting a helping hand will get you further along.

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