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Thread: VP9 Striker Drop with Impact to Grip

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Do what? That jackass keeps asking for data about them failing in gun fights...

    My guess few have been in gunfights if any.


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    And thus....see just above your statement.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    All guns malfunction. This malfunction doesn’t occur in other guns and happens at an alarming rate.

    Where did I say what I carry?

    No major LE Agency carries a VP9. Some authorize it, but that doesn’t make it vetted.

    Tell us more about your religion.


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    I have already discussed and explained why it doesn't occur at an alarming compared to other malfunctions. If you want to refute it, then challenge my argument instead of saying the same thing.

    Here is the list of organizations that currently use the VP9 via wikipedia. Its your opinion whether or not that's not enough in circulation for you:

    Germany
    Bavarian State Police — Around 40,000 units ordered. Police officers will be equipped with the SFP9 by 2019.[17][18][19]
    Berlin Police — 24,000 SFP9 TR pistols and 450 SFP9 SK (subcompact) pistols were ordered in December 2017 with deliveries in 2018.[20]
    GSG 9 — As of 2018, the VP9 Tactical will replace the older Heckler & Koch USP Tactical.
    State Police of Lower Saxony — Approx. 22,000 pistols will consecutively replace the former P2000 pistols.[21]
    State Police of Saxony — More than 11,000 SFP9 pistols ordered in 2015. (Deliveries will take place from 2016 to 2018).[22]
    State Police of Brandenburg — Approx. 8,000 SFP9 pistols replacing the P228.[23]
    State Police of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania — 5,700 pistols ordered.[24]

    Japan
    Japan Ground Self-Defense Force - future standard issue sidearm, replacing the SIG P220 [25]

    Luxembourg
    Grand Ducal Police — Approx. 1,700 SFP9 pistols replacing the Smith & Wesson 686 as of 2017.[26]

    United States
    Phenix City Police Department, Alabama — 107 VP40 pistols will replace the department's Glock pistols.[27]
    City of Madison Police Department, Wisconsin — Officers can choose to carry an HK VP9 over other Glock offerings.[28]
    Whitehall Township Police Department, Pennsylvania
    City of Tukwila Police Department, Washington
    Clark County Sheriffs Department, Nevada — Approved as duty weapon
    Switzerland
    Cantonal police of Basel-Stadt — 900 pistols.
    Last edited by mngo888; 02-11-2020 at 11:13 PM.

  3. #93
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    I mean...….

    at the end of the day, what moron uses their loaded pistol as a hammer?

    OH....and has the business end pointed at himself, rather than the aggressor?

    I mean....this is just stupid.

    Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ETA: Focker OUT!!!

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  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Tell us more about your religion.
    I got $10 that says he is a die-hard .40 guy.
    Own: HK91, SP5k, G36k, HK416, P30L, 2x P8, P8A1, USP SD, USP9, USP9 FDE
    Future: SP5? Assuming I can find an honest seller.

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    I got $10 that says he is a die-hard .40 guy.
    $20 says Jennings .25 guy
    sickness likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    No, I don't understand, frankly. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

    Here, we have a demonstrable issue with the VP9 -- an issue which, however unlikely to happen "in the field" nevertheless COULD happen -- and need not (other guns don't have this problem).

    So, whatever hassles, issues or problems pistols may have -- I am in a position where I can choose a pistol with N problems -- or the VP9 with N+1 issues.



    You're assuming I don't care about them. In fact, my choice of carry, and preferred tactics, largely mitigate these issues without needing ad-hoc strap-on nonsense like stand-off devices. The BIGGER issue, with that particular corner-case is that a gun not firing when it fails to go into battery isn't a malfunction at all. It is doing PRECISELY what it is designed to do. When using the pistol in this way, I'm the gun asking it to do something unreasonable.

    This issue with the VP9, however, is that the gun is just crapping itself. Bottom line.
    Technically absence of evidence for this malfunction is still data to consider. With all of the organizations I listed above that still use it and just one person reporting having this issue in a gun fight, it is good data on the reliability of this gun. It may not be for you but I all I can do is present this information.

    If you pull the trigger wanting it to go bang and it doesn't, its a malfunction. The out of battery feature ensures that you don't have a catastrophic malfunction.

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    So, whatever hassles, issues or problems pistols may have -- I am in a position where I can choose a pistol with N problems -- or the VP9 with N+1 issues. .
    If other guns have a rate of malfunctions as N. That doesn't mean that the VP9 is N+1 for their rate of malfunction. That would only be true if both N's were equal. We don't know for certain that is the case as I described before. There are indications of reliability that we can look at from anecdotal accounts and etc. to make an assumption on that.

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    I have already discussed and explained why it doesn't occur at an alarming compared to other malfunctions. If you want to refute it, then challenge my argument instead of saying the same thing.

    Here is the list of organizations that currently use the VP9 via wikipedia. Its your opinion whether or not that's not enough in circulation for you:

    Germany
    Bavarian State Police — Around 40,000 units ordered. Police officers will be equipped with the SFP9 by 2019.[17][18][19]
    Berlin Police — 24,000 SFP9 TR pistols and 450 SFP9 SK (subcompact) pistols were ordered in December 2017 with deliveries in 2018.[20]
    GSG 9 — As of 2018, the VP9 Tactical will replace the older Heckler & Koch USP Tactical.
    State Police of Lower Saxony — Approx. 22,000 pistols will consecutively replace the former P2000 pistols.[21]
    State Police of Saxony — More than 11,000 SFP9 pistols ordered in 2015. (Deliveries will take place from 2016 to 2018).[22]
    State Police of Brandenburg — Approx. 8,000 SFP9 pistols replacing the P228.[23]
    State Police of Mecklenburg-West Pomerania — 5,700 pistols ordered.[24]

    Japan
    Japan Ground Self-Defense Force - future standard issue sidearm, replacing the SIG P220 [25]

    Luxembourg
    Grand Ducal Police — Approx. 1,700 SFP9 pistols replacing the Smith & Wesson 686 as of 2017.[26]

    United States
    Phenix City Police Department, Alabama — 107 VP40 pistols will replace the department's Glock pistols.[27]
    City of Madison Police Department, Wisconsin — Officers can choose to carry an HK VP9 over other Glock offerings.[28]
    Whitehall Township Police Department, Pennsylvania
    City of Tukwila Police Department, Washington
    Clark County Sheriffs Department, Nevada — Approved as duty weapon
    Switzerland
    Cantonal police of Basel-Stadt — 900 pistols.
    That is the SFP9. Not the same gun. They have different springs and some internal changes.

    So like I said, VP9s are not a major department issued handgun. They have not been subjected to major testing protocols.


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  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    I mean...….

    at the end of the day, what moron uses their loaded pistol as a hammer?

    OH....and has the business end pointed at himself, rather than the aggressor?

    I mean....this is just stupid.

    Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ETA: Focker OUT!!!
    Not sure if you’re trying to be tongue in cheek or if you’re being serious.

    But in case you’re being serious, it isn’t “using it as a hammer” that is concerning. The reasons why are outlined above.


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  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    Technically absence of evidence for this malfunction is still data to consider. With all of the organizations I listed above that still use it and just one person reporting having this issue in a gun fight, it is good data on the reliability of this gun. It may not be for you but I all I can do is present this information.
    No dude. Technically, absence of evidence = zero evidence. Sort of a truism, that.

    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    If you pull the trigger wanting it to go bang and it doesn't, its a malfunction. The out of battery feature ensures that you don't have a catastrophic malfunction.
    So, if I take the mag out, lock the slide back and pull the trigger expecting it to go bang - and it doesn't - its the gun's fault? It's a malfunction? Or am I just dumb, and using the gun in an inappropriate way? If I take a wrench and bang on something as if it were a hammer and things get all screwed up -- that's a bad wrench? Or am I just clueless in how to appropriately use the tools?

    I side with the later. Firearms are ranged weapons. If I'm using it at contact distance, I've already screwed up and it isn't a malfunction of the device -- I'm just retarded, or lack other appropriate tools (i.e. knife) for dealing with the situation. That said, sure -- its nice to have the option for shooting during contact. Stand off devices are one option. A gun with an extended barrel is another. Neither get to the heart of the problem, since at this range the attacker can easily get his hand on my pistol and whether he means to or not, could very easily take it out of battery. Now I'm in a situation where an aggressor and I are struggling for a gun which won't work until one of us gets control of it and backs up a bit. Who the heck wants that?!

    Stick the dude, get free, take a few steps back - draw your firearm and assess.

    Guns. Knives. Hammers. Wrenches.
    Tools.

    "You should not have a favorite weapon. To become overly-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault at not knowing it sufficiently well."
    "From inside fortifications, the gun has no equal among weapons. It is the supreme weapon on the field before the ranks clash, however once swords cross, the gun is useless."
    - Miyamoto Musashi

    Standoff device? Silly talk.
    Last edited by sickness; 02-12-2020 at 12:24 AM.

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