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Thread: VP9 Striker Drop with Impact to Grip

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    From Rick’s account, as described here, we can assume that the Glock failed the drop test and the VP9 passed it?
    Maybe. I wouldn't try to assume that though. We can just assume from the tests that the VP9 did a good job.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Wow, the mental gymnastics going on here to defend the VP9.

    For the record, six out of six VP9s I’ve tried this on will result in dead trigger. Hmm....but HK cannot replicate it? Hmmm.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think HK could replicate it but not at the rate to say that its a problem but I can only assume. Why don't you email them since your gun malfunctioned?

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by PorterM View Post
    I absolutely believe the story of the VP9 passing drop tests for breakage when other models failed. But apparently this is a separate issue and it desperately needs to be addressed.
    Rick did say that the sear didn't slip the entire duration of the test if that what you mean by separate issue.

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  5. #144
    YVK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidcore View Post

    Forgot: if we are not going to take Rick's claim then why are we taking anyone's here that cant show proof one way or another (vids or it didnt happen).

    That's very simple.
    First, Rick's info is an admitted second hand info, some stuff released by a company that I will unlikely ever trust again. I would have taken his own testing reports as credible.
    Second, the gun community for us old timers is more closely knit than one would think. There are people who have been involved in this subject who know each other personally. For example, if a former HK sponsored shooter posts that he was able to reproduce this thing on his guns, and this is a guy I've shot matches from locals to Nationals, hung out with, had dinners with, and can vouch for, I sure as hell not going to treat him with "video or never happened" attitude.

    In general, on gun sites the trolls and shills who keep posting systematic disinformation get outed, get labeled, and sometimes get banned. Some people have lost decades-earned reputation with one web post. Given that these reports have been posted by long standing community members, they are endowed with some amount of trustworthiness.
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  6. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    No, I said that Rick conveyed the info he received from SIG, as opposed to being present at the tests. I also implied, and now saying this explicitly, that SIG's recent conduct has put them in a place where I will not trust absolutely any information that comes out of that company. None, irrespective of whether it relates to their or other's products and whether it puts said products in a positive or negative light.


    I do find it interesting that Rick, who probably has had more VP9s through his hands than most people, hasn't said anything about his personal experience with this problem. I read his quote as a statement of confidence into the VP9's design, and that he believed that striker drops are isolated events related to issues typical of mass produced items (which actually implies that he does not overtly disbelieve the reports). What he hasn't said was if he has adopted a practice of checking the VP9s that go through his shop for striker drop, and how many, if any, he has seen do that.
    Okay, I understand your distrust for Sig Sauer and that they could possibly be lying about this as well. I just don't see why they would lie in favor of a competitors gun.

    The wording does seem vague and does not have any objective evidence but rather his overall perspective is on this matter. I would rather have the numbers. I am focused more on the Sig Sauer test than on his opinion.

  7. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidcore View Post
    I'm not going to go quote happy to reply. trying to not lean on one side or the other on this discussion. Its just my inner nerd wanting the data. This discussion is actually good as it is consolidating details on this issue.

    we now have a fair amount of accounts that prove no issue here, on reddit and FB; and reports of failures. (Edited- read something wrong) This all also still doesnt account for wear, care and mods. Also, video is the only real proof of all these failures or its all hear say and we only know of 1? video proving this.

    I also urge you to read the 2nd FB post I shared. That guy reported the issue does exist and one of the last post here both showed you would need a lot of force and the springs\mods matter. A post on reddit was interesting. A farmer carries a vp9sk owb and bangs into things with it while working. He reported no issues and bone stock.

    Forgot: if we are not going to take Rick's claim then why are we taking anyone's here that cant show proof one way or another (vids or it didnt happen). From his reply he for sure doesn't deny the issue, but reported that there has been tests done that show positive results. He makes money regardless off HK and if anything this would be something he could sell a part or service for.
    Yes video evidence is stronger than saying whether you did or did not have a malfunction. But I'll still believe verbal reports either way unless there is reason not to. We can get jumbled up keeping tally of who can or can't get their VP9 to malfunction, who has mods/increased wear, how much force was applied, what angle of force, how the gun was gripped, what surface they hit the gun on, how many times they needed to strike it to get it to slip, what year of manufacture, etc....but that doesn't represent if this malfunction can happen in the real world (I have discussed this already ad nauseam). That's why I really only care about controlled tests and accounts where this malfunction happened in gun fights.

  8. #147
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    Default VP9 Striker Drop with Impact to Grip

    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    I think HK could replicate it but not at the rate to say that its a problem but I can only assume. Why don't you email them since your gun malfunctioned?
    Because I suck and they hate me?


    Instead I will carry guns that don’t have this fatal flaw. The VP9 does nothing other more robust guns don’t.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  9. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidcore View Post
    I'm not going to go quote happy to reply. trying to not lean on one side or the other on this discussion. Its just my inner nerd wanting the data. This discussion is actually good as it is consolidating details on this issue.

    we now have a fair amount of accounts that prove no issue here, on reddit and FB; and reports of failures. (Edited- read something wrong) This all also still doesnt account for wear, care and mods. Also, video is the only real proof of all these failures or its all hear say and we only know of 1? video proving this.

    I also urge you to read the 2nd FB post I shared. That guy reported the issue does exist and one of the last post here both showed you would need a lot of force and the springs\mods matter. A post on reddit was interesting. A farmer carries a vp9sk owb and bangs into things with it while working. He reported no issues and bone stock.

    Forgot: if we are not going to take Rick's claim then why are we taking anyone's here that cant show proof one way or another (vids or it didnt happen). From his reply he for sure doesn't deny the issue, but reported that there has been tests done that show positive results. He makes money regardless off HK and if anything this would be something he could sell a part or service for.
    Yes video evidence is stronger than saying whether you did or did not have a malfunction. But I'll still believe verbal reports either way unless there is reason not to. We can get jumbled up keeping tally of who can or can't get their VP9 to malfunction, who has mods/increased wear, how much force was applied, what angle of force, how the gun was gripped, what surface they hit the gun on, how many times they needed to strike it to get it to slip, what year of manufacture, etc....but that doesn't represent if this malfunction can happen in the real world (I have discussed this already ad nauseam). That's why I really only care about controlled tests and accounts where this malfunction happened in gun fights.
    I agree fully

  10. #149
    RDA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    You definitely need to change out your drop safety spring then. I don't see mechanically how your drop safety spring slipped out of the drop safety unless the drop safety spring was weakened some how. Also you may have forgotten to put in your drop safety pin back in the slide to secure it place. Downward force shouldn't affect the drop safety itself since it is pinned down. Props to you for being able to generate more force than a fall or body slam on your VP9. Thanks for the information.
    Pretty sure I mentioned that ALL the springs, except the RSA had been changed. I also used a new drop safety axle pin. The small pins are ALWAYS replaced with new ones when I work on a pistol.
    Reusing pins that small, is like reusing toilet paper. It's a crappy idea, and you don't save enough money to make it worth it.

    I guess that means I hit it pretty hard
    Last edited by RDA; 02-13-2020 at 05:58 PM.

  11. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobblestone View Post
    Problems such as this are very hard to track in the wild.

    For example, if a police department carries these pistols, the chances are very low that an upset striker would be discovered in use. Because that implies an officer drew and fired and nothing happened, and that the cops who didn't draw and fire on duty can tell when they operate the slide next time that the striker had been forward. In my experience, most cops don't have firearms acumen to notice and don't care to acquire it.

    Police shootings aren't as common as one might believe and departments that carry this pistol are rarer yet. When that duty pistol IS fired, it is usually done at the range, and prior to the shooting, there is usually a pistol inspection or an unload and reload with practice ammo or some other safety or training activity that would diminish the likelihood of discovering the situation. Almost never does a police or military range session begin with "Welcome to the range, draw and shoot that target".
    I have never seen (in ordinary circumstances), in military or police organizations, a loaded firearm handed over for inspection, still loaded and in battery, to an armorer.
    Thus would most evidence of the striker upset problem disappear.

    In fact, I believe the farmer mentioned in a post above, would be more likely to find the striker upset problem than a police department might be. The farmer shoots his pistol when he damn well pleases and probably does nothing to the pistol before he does so. But the farmer deals with only one such pistol, so may not amount to much of a testbed.

    Glock had serious problems in the Gen 1 guns. Maybe these were cleared up in later generation versions. I was in the next room when one AD happened when a holstered pistol was struck, and I personally know three guys who witnessed other Glock ADs when the guns were struck or dropped. Even before watching that boondoggle unfold and receive almost no public exposure (and no recalls I ever heard of - as far as I know all the civilian Gen 1 Glocks are still out there someplace equipped with the internal parts as-issued), I jettisoned the Glock and went DA/SA SIG.
    I was soured on striker fired pistols then and there and I won't go back. Don't have to. I can buy what I want nowadays.

    I don't put this VP9 problem in the same class as the Glock problem because the pistols haven't discharged. Another safety device or some feature or sheer luck may have prevented that. If you ask me, though, the sear itself (in a striker-fired gun) is safety device number ONE as well as being a critical MOVING part of the action. When the sear is suspect in any gun, you can count me out.

    I don't have a VP9 and never have had one. If I did and if I liked striker fired pistols, I wouldn't carry a VP9 until this matter was thoroughly proven cured. I'm not carrying guns for inconsequential reasons. Mine have to work (or at least not be self-pre-failed before the first shot is fired) immediately, every time. I don't carry guns to brandish them and I can run away faster without the weight of a fully loaded but useless gun in one of my hands.

    No offense intended. I've been through the same pistolero taffy pulls over Glocks and other guns I had paid good money for. This is just how I see things.
    If the real problem we are discussing here is the striker dropping from banging around in everyday use then a simple fix would be to just press check it every morning. Could you bump your gun enough times and force to drop the sear and have to use your gun that day as well? Yeah, but think of the chances of that. What we are really discussing is the issue of banging your gun in a gun fight where you are hands on and smashing into things or when you drop your gun in a fight. And I am pretty sure that any police officer would remember trying to shoot someone and having the gun just click. And if this situation continued to happen, then word will get out eventually. If HK gets enough reports on it, I am sure that they will do larger scale testing and possible changes since once these police organizations get a hint that the VP9 was unreliable in any way in the field, they won't continue to use it.

    If a gun has a predisposition to AD I don't know why any company would not want to fix that. Sig sauer got sued big time when their p320 AD'ed into a police officer's leg. I am sure that Glock determined that their gen 1's did not have a tendency to AD. But you could be right.

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