VP9 Striker Drop with Impact to Grip - Page 9
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Thread: VP9 Striker Drop with Impact to Grip

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    No, of course my statement does not imply to wait until a failure in middle of a gun fight. I am saying that we can't assume that this malfunction is an actual problem until we start seeing reports of it in actual gun fights and not specific controlled situations.
    Sooo .. how is that NOT waiting until we get data from gunfights?!


    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    I bet a lot of you aren't buying stand off devices, recessing your magazine buttons, buying guns without safeties, or permanently staking your sights.
    So don't act like you care so much or have a low tolerance for this rare malfunction when most of you haven't address other malfunctions that can go wrong in those situations.
    Yeah, but .. you just cited a bunch of malfunctions that can affect nearly ALL pistols. We're talking about a malfunction that only affects the VP9.

    What you're essentially saying is this: There are larger, more common, causes of failure than this issue, so we shouldn't be too concerned about it. That is the logic you're using. And you keep pushing it, despite reasonable objections to the contrary -- I can only assume this is because you're emotionally involved in this whole discussion.

    So lets take the discussion away from guns, and the VP9 for a moment. Lets just look at the LOGIC alone. Applying this logic, we have the following:

    The top, most common, causes of death in the U.S are heart disease, and cancer. So, given those big concerns, why worry too much about car accidents? Or in any case, who cares what the safety rating on a particular model car is. Those ratings are all from "controlled tests" which mean nothing in the real world. What we need to see is how many actual deaths occur during accidents, then we'll know if the car has a problem or not. Besides, since you guys all eat steaks and smoke cigarettes, its clear that you're not too worried about your health or dying, so why bother wearing a seat belt.

    Can you not appreciate how bat-**** crazy this sounds!!?!
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    Own: HK91, SP5k, G36k, HK416, P30L, 2x P8, P8A1, USP SD, USP9, USP9 FDE
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    Sooo .. how is that NOT waiting until we get data from gunfights?!




    Yeah, but .. you just cited a bunch of malfunctions that can affect nearly ALL pistols. We're talking about a malfunction that only affects the VP9.

    What you're essentially saying is this: There are larger, more common, causes of failure than this issue, so we shouldn't be too concerned about it. That is the logic you're using. And you keep pushing it, despite reasonable objections to the contrary -- I can only assume this is because you're emotionally involved in this whole discussion.

    So lets take the discussion away from guns, and the VP9 for a moment. Lets just look at the LOGIC alone. Applying this logic, we have the following:

    The top, most common, causes of death in the U.S are heart disease, and cancer. So, given those big concerns, why worry too much about car accidents? Or in any case, who cares what the safety rating on a particular model car is. Those ratings are all from "controlled tests" which mean nothing in the real world. What we need to see is how many actual deaths occur during accidents, then we'll know if the car has a problem or not. Besides, since you guys all eat steaks and smoke cigarettes, its clear that you're not too worried about your health or dying, so why bother wearing a seat belt.

    Can you not appreciate how bat-**** crazy this sounds!!?!
    ^^^^^^^^This.....you can't rationalize with someone who is "irrational".

    It's called "dumb dumb"......now......where's my hammer....I mean my

    VP9? I've got to finish this deck.
    A redneck's famous last words...."Hey everybody, watch this!"

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Yet a member here found his DUTY GUN with a dead striker.


    You say look at the data. If we look at the data, you’re an idiot for carrying a VP9 because it is unvetted. We have plenty of guns that are vetted and there is data on. You’re suggesting “trust your gut” but you want us to trust our lives on an unknown.

    Your emotional attachment to the inanimate object is juvenile at best. It’s obvious to all is here. It’s apparent you’ve put your fingers in your ear and yelled, “lalalalalala I can’t hear you”. That’s fine.

    You do you, boo boo.


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    As I said before, I can also refer to many other well known firearms that malfunctioned in a duty capacity also (Hk's, glocks, etc). Multiples counts as well. But no one seems to care this much.

    The VP9 is unvetted? Isn't it so convenient that the required time a gun needs to be around to be vetted is just about the same amount of time your carry gun has been around? The VP9 is used by law enforcement in the united states, all across the world, and is used by the Japanese military. In my opinion its vetted enough. Could it be more? Or course. But it would be wrong to say that the reliability of the VP9 is "an unknown." I said to not trust your gut in that other post.

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  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    Sooo .. how is that NOT waiting until we get data from gunfights?!




    Yeah, but .. you just cited a bunch of malfunctions that can affect nearly ALL pistols. We're talking about a malfunction that only affects the VP9.

    What you're essentially saying is this: There are larger, more common, causes of failure than this issue, so we shouldn't be too concerned about it. That is the logic you're using. And you keep pushing it, despite reasonable objections to the contrary -- I can only assume this is because you're emotionally involved in this whole discussion.

    So lets take the discussion away from guns, and the VP9 for a moment. Lets just look at the LOGIC alone. Applying this logic, we have the following:

    The top, most common, causes of death in the U.S are heart disease, and cancer. So, given those big concerns, why worry too much about car accidents? Or in any case, who cares what the safety rating on a particular model car is. Those ratings are all from "controlled tests" which mean nothing in the real world. What we need to see is how many actual deaths occur during accidents, then we'll know if the car has a problem or not. Besides, since you guys all eat steaks and smoke cigarettes, its clear that you're not too worried about your health or dying, so why bother wearing a seat belt.

    Can you not appreciate how bat-**** crazy this sounds!!?!
    Yeah, we are waiting for data from gunfights. BUT its not like we don't have data already. Not seeing reported incidents of this malfunction in past gunfights IS DATA AS WELL. It is data showing that this malfunction is not occurring even when there are HK VP9's circulating in police departments and the Japanese military. Do you understand my point now? We are waiting for more data but we have data already.

    Yes I know that all pistols can do these malfunctions including the VP9. The point was that there are all of these malfunctions that we agree can occur more frequently as a whole compared to the VP9. There are dozens of things that can go wrong but no one really care about these malfunctions. Most people aren't buying stand off devices, recessing their magazine buttons, buying guns without safeties, or permanently staking sights. These would greatly mitigate these other malfunctions but people mostly aren't doing these things. So why do you care so much about this specific malfunction especially since they occur less compared to others combined.

    Lol Its not crazy. You are using examples in that the punishment for ignoring them do not effect you at the same times. This greatly affects the motivate to do something about it. Car accidents are sudden causes of death and affect us now. Lung cancer and heart disease have an insidious progression and doesn't affect you until decades away. At least you can live a decent amount of time before dying. That is why no one cares about heart disease and lung cancer in this country. Why would they care about not smoking that one pack today when it will affect them 30 years down the line? If I have a two possibilities (Any gun malfunction or vp9 sear drop) that affect me right now (gun fight) and one is more likely (any other malfunction) than anyone would prepare for it. But most people don't and make a big deal about something less likely.

    BTW heart disease and lung cancer are the number 1 cause of PREVENTABLE death in the united states. This just shows how the timing of consequences effect the levels of someones motivation.
    Last edited by mngo888; 02-11-2020 at 09:58 PM.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    As I said before, I can also refer to many other well known firearms that malfunctioned in a duty capacity also (Hk's, glocks, etc). Multiples counts as well. But no one seems to care this much.

    The VP9 is unvetted? Isn't it so convenient that the required time a gun needs to be around to be vetted is just about the same amount of time your carry gun has been around? The VP9 is used by law enforcement in the united states, all across the world, and is used by the Japanese military. In my opinion its vetted enough. Could it be more? Or course. But it would be wrong to say that the reliability of the VP9 is "an unknown." I said to not trust your gut in that other post.
    All guns malfunction. This malfunction doesn’t occur in other guns and happens at an alarming rate.

    Where did I say what I carry?

    No major LE Agency carries a VP9. Some authorize it, but that doesn’t make it vetted.

    Tell us more about your religion.


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  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    Yeah, we are waiting for data from gunfights. BUT its not like we don't have data already. Not seeing reported incidents of this malfunction in past gunfights IS DATA AS WELL. It is data showing that this malfunction is not occurring even when there are HK VP9's circulating in police departments and the Japanese military. Do you understand my point now? We are waiting for more data but we have data already.

    Yes I know that all pistols can do these malfunctions including the VP9. The point was that there are all of these malfunctions that we agree can occur more frequently as a whole compared to the VP9. There are dozens of things that can go wrong but no one really care about these malfunctions. Most people aren't buying stand off devices, recessing their magazine buttons, buying guns without safeties, or permanently staking sights. These would greatly mitigate these other malfunctions but people mostly aren't doing these things. So why do you care so much about this specific malfunction especially since they occur less compared to others combined.

    Lol Its not crazy. You are using examples in that the punishment for ignoring them do not effect you at the same times. This greatly affects the motivate to do something about it. Car accidents are sudden causes of death and affect us now. Lung cancer and heart disease have an insidious progression and doesn't affect you until decades away. At least you can live a decent amount of time before dying. That is why no one cares about heart disease and lung cancer in this country. Why would they care about not smoking that one pack today when it will affect them 30 years down the line? If I have a two possibilities (Any gun malfunction or vp9 sear drop) that affect me right now (gun fight) and one is more likely (any other malfunction) than anyone would prepare for it. But most people don't and make a big deal about something less likely.

    BTW heart disease and lung cancer are the number 1 cause of PREVENTABLE death in the united states. This just shows how the timing of consequences effect the levels of someones motivation.


    Lol provide me data about the success of the VP9 in gun fights.


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  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpillregret View Post
    Lol provide me data about the success of the VP9 in gun fights.


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    Are you serious Clark????!!!!

    I want the data on using a VP9 as a hammer, and how many

    morons got shot putting a loaded round in the chamber while doing so.

    NOW....back to finishing my deck with my loaded VP9

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    Yeah, we are waiting for data from gunfights. BUT its not like we don't have data already. Not seeing reported incidents of this malfunction in past gunfights IS DATA AS WELL. It is data showing that this malfunction is not occurring even when there are HK VP9's circulating in police departments and the Japanese military. Do you understand my point now? We are waiting for more data but we have data already.
    No, I don't understand, frankly. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

    Here, we have a demonstrable issue with the VP9 -- an issue which, however unlikely to happen "in the field" nevertheless COULD happen -- and need not (other guns don't have this problem).

    So, whatever hassles, issues or problems pistols may have -- I am in a position where I can choose a pistol with N problems -- or the VP9 with N+1 issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by mngo888 View Post
    Yes I know that all pistols can do these malfunctions including the VP9. The point was that there are all of these malfunctions that we agree can occur more frequently as a whole compared to the VP9. There are dozens of things that can go wrong but no one really care about these malfunctions. Most people aren't buying stand off devices, recessing their magazine buttons, buying guns without safeties, or permanently staking sights. These would greatly mitigate these other malfunctions but people mostly aren't doing these things. So why do you care so much about this specific malfunction especially since they occur less compared to others combined.
    You're assuming I don't care about them. In fact, my choice of carry, and preferred tactics, largely mitigate these issues without needing ad-hoc strap-on nonsense like stand-off devices. The BIGGER issue, with that particular corner-case is that a gun not firing when it fails to go into battery isn't a malfunction at all. It is doing PRECISELY what it is designed to do. When using the pistol in this way, I'm the gun asking it to do something unreasonable.

    This issue with the VP9, however, is that the gun is just crapping itself. Bottom line.

  10. #89
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  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    Are you serious Clark????!!!!

    I want the data on using a VP9 as a hammer, and how many

    morons got shot putting a loaded round in the chamber while doing so.

    NOW....back to finishing my deck with my loaded VP9
    Do what? That jackass keeps asking for data about them failing in gun fights...

    My guess few have been in gunfights if any.


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