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  1. #31
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    For those current VP9 owners...the pictures I've seen of my soon to arrive pistol show sights that don't appear tall enough to co-witness in the RDS. Should I be looking for taller sights or do the factory sights work?
    "Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." - Steve Prefontaine

  2. #32
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    I understand the reluctance to have someone machine on a gun that's not broken even if it doesn't have sentimental value.

    I'm an aerospace engineer. I cannot count the number of times I've seen parts come in that were machined incorrectly no matter how simple the part. This goes for parts made from the ground up either to drawings or models or both as well as modifications to existing parts that are as simple as 'drill a hole this size in this location.'

    Even in the best of shops, things can still happen that can make a mess of the job. Cutters can break. The wrong program can get loaded into the mill. The mill actuators take a dump in the middle of a job and crash the head into the item being machined. The machinist for some reason decided to eyeball something instead of a measured adjustment. An adjustment is made in the wrong direction.

    Those are only some of the examples and in a controlled machine shop. Don't even get me started on installation errors when something is being installed on an airplane.

    (It isn't machining, but I once was told by a mechanic that when making a bent sheet metal clip (just a bent piece of metal usually rivited on both ends to other parts as a gusset or brace) to replace a broken one, they typically made at least three and used the one that came closest to fitting where it needed to go.)

    Things that shouldn't happen sometimes do.
    Last edited by StarWolf; 05-15-2020 at 10:55 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarWolf View Post
    I understand the reluctance to have someone machine on a gun that's not broken even if it doesn't have sentimental value.

    I'm an aerospace engineer. I cannot count the number of times I've seen parts come in that were machined incorrectly no matter how simple the part. This goes for parts made from the ground up either to drawings or models or both as well as modifications to existing parts that are as simple as 'drill a hole this size in this location.'

    Even in the best of shops, things can still happen that can make a mess of the job. Cutters can break. The wrong program can get loaded into the mill. The mill actuators take a dump in the middle of a job and crash the head into the item being machined. The machinist for some reason decided to eyeball something instead of a measured adjustment. An adjustment is made in the wrong direction.

    Those are only some of the examples and in a controlled machine shop. Don't even get me started on installation errors when something is being installed on an airplane.

    Things that shouldn't happen sometimes do.


    110%. And you work in Aerospace, a field which has some of the strictest quality assurance and compliance regulations around!!!

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgraff13 View Post
    For those current VP9 owners...the pictures I've seen of my soon to arrive pistol show sights that don't appear tall enough to co-witness in the RDS. Should I be looking for taller sights or do the factory sights work?

    I have an earlier VP9 without the red dot sight mounting plate.
    That said, before you invest in new sights, break it in and shoot it as you got it for a few hundred rounds and then start messing with the sights and everything else.

  6. #35
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    WRT what caliber to get when looking for a handgun...

    I will agree that the era of 9 is more or less here. I'm still not quite sure I buy the argument that it's better than everything else because more effort has been put into it and finally managed to make it good enough while the same effort has not translated into the .40 or .45 at the same time.

    I don't consider the 40 dead but like many other calibers it is not as popular as it once was. I don't exactly see it staging a comeback to favored status. One can argue the reason there's plenty of inventory of ammo is the somewhat waning popularity of the round hasn't quite caught up with the ammo supply chain. I will state that I don't have issues with the recoil of the .40 but I used to help out at a gunshop a lot and I would hear from customers that they did NOT like the .40 in the smaller CCW types of handguns. One of my coworkers bought a Px4 in .40 and was thinking about a Shield in the same caliber until he shot one. His conclusion was his wife could not handle the smaller gun in that caliber and so it was out.
    The .40 can still be a viable caliber and if you like it then it is not automatically the wrong caliber to have.

    Personally I have never owned a firearm chambered in .40 S&W or .357 Sig in spite of having picked up more than a couple gallons of .40 brass at the range over the years. I had intended to get the Sig P226 a Glock and maybe a few others in .40 and then get the additional barrels and mags to have conversions to the .357 Sig and 9mm but when it came down to it I usually simply bought the .45 ACP or 9mm version of whatever wonder gun I was looking at instead.

    I do own and prefer pistols in .45 ACP, 10mm and 9mm. I also own .38/.357 Mag and .44 Mag in wheel guns and have a few options in .22LR, .22 WMR, .380 ACP .7.62x25 and .32 Auto but I don't exactly consider the latter first choice self defense calibers.

    IF you choose one of the less popular calibers I feel it is important to be prepared to deal with the choice. When I picked up the 10mm I also picked up a couple thousand practice/plinking rounds and 500 rounds of hollow points. I also picked up reloading dies and some components. When CA passed their somewhat recent ammo regulations I picked up another thousand or two loaded rounds.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarWolf View Post
    WRT what caliber to get when looking for a handgun...

    I will agree that the era of 9 is more or less here. I'm still not quite sure I buy the argument that it's better than everything else because more effort has been put into it and finally managed to make it good enough while the same effort has not translated into the .40 or .45 at the same time.

    I don't consider the 40 dead but like many other calibers it is not as popular as it once was. I don't exactly see it staging a comeback to favored status. One can argue the reason there's plenty of inventory of ammo is the somewhat waning popularity of the round hasn't quite caught up with the ammo supply chain. I will state that I don't have issues with the recoil of the .40 but I used to help out at a gunshop a lot and I would hear from customers that they did NOT like the .40 in the smaller CCW types of handguns. One of my coworkers bought a Px4 in .40 and was thinking about a Shield in the same caliber until he shot one. His conclusion was his wife could not handle the smaller gun in that caliber and so it was out.
    The .40 can still be a viable caliber and if you like it then it is not automatically the wrong caliber to have.

    Personally I have never owned a firearm chambered in .40 S&W or .357 Sig in spite of having picked up more than a couple gallons of .40 brass at the range over the years. I had intended to get the Sig P226 a Glock and maybe a few others in .40 and then get the additional barrels and mags to have conversions to the .357 Sig and 9mm but when it came down to it I usually simply bought the .45 ACP or 9mm version of whatever wonder gun I was looking at instead.

    I do own and prefer pistols in .45 ACP, 10mm and 9mm. I also own .38/.357 Mag and .44 Mag in wheel guns and have a few options in .22LR, .22 WMR, .380 ACP .7.62x25 and .32 Auto but I don't exactly consider the latter first choice self defense calibers.

    IF you choose one of the less popular calibers I feel it is important to be prepared to deal with the choice. When I picked up the 10mm I also picked up a couple thousand practice/plinking rounds and 500 rounds of hollow points. I also picked up reloading dies and some components. When CA passed their somewhat recent ammo regulations I picked up another thousand or two loaded rounds.


    Gents:

    Not sure where y’all get this idea from that it is not a dead caliber. Great that your small town LGS has .40 on the shelf at a fair price. But .40 has lost its following and user base (unless you are a cop in Venezuela). And this happened years ago. Major DOJ agencies transitioned to 9mm years ago after SOCOM did, and then major LE agencies followed suit.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/us-secret-...ry?id=64719349

    Get with the times. It is what it is. I quite like 10mm and prefer it to all other calibers in a handgun.

    The reality is 9mm is the world standard and it will become even more prevalent going forward.

  8. #37
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    I have no intention of 'getting with the times' to the point that I standardize on ANY single caliber or for that matter any single firearm type.
    Just because 'everyone else is doing it' is one I have never felt the need to accept.

    By your logic .308 is also dead and died ~40 years ago when 5.56 rifles became the 'Western standard'.

    .30-06 has been dead for sixty years or more.

    .45-70 has been dead 128 years.

    .44 Mag never being 'adopted' by anyone other than Dirty Harry has been dead from the start.

    You might even make the argument that the Beretta 92/M9 became the standard in 1990 and with everyone across the U.S. adopting it all other brands should just give it up and stop making anything else...

    BTW, I've been in 'small town gunshops' from LA to Atlanta in a dozen different cities and a half dozen states or more and they ALL had ammo in .45, .40, 9mm, .44 Mag, .38 SP, .357 Mag, .223/5.56, .308 & .30-06. Most of them had .357 Sig and .45-70 and more than half of them even had 10mm on the shelf when I was looking.

    I have no idea what is on the shelf during this panic. I haven't had much interest in what's been on the shelf in any of the panics over the past 20 years. I learned during the Clinton administration panics to buy at good prices and have enough on hand so you could ride the panic out. I wouldn't recommend picking a caliber based on what is left on the shelf after the panic crowd had bought everything they want because the hurricane is coming in or Biden is getting elected or somebody sneezed.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgraff13 View Post
    For those current VP9 owners...the pictures I've seen of my soon to arrive pistol show sights that don't appear tall enough to co-witness in the RDS. Should I be looking for taller sights or do the factory sights work?
    I would second the advise to shoot the gun first before attempting anything with the sights. Once you are happy the gun is what you want then you can worry about changes to the sights if required or you might even choose a different dot.
    CGuns1 likes this.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarWolf View Post
    I have no intention of 'getting with the times' to the point that I standardize on ANY single caliber or for that matter any single firearm type.
    Just because 'everyone else is doing it' is one I have never felt the need to accept.

    By your logic .308 is also dead and died ~40 years ago when 5.56 rifles became the 'Western standard'.

    .30-06 has been dead for sixty years or more.

    .45-70 has been dead 128 years.

    .44 Mag never being 'adopted' by anyone other than Dirty Harry has been dead from the start.

    You might even make the argument that the Beretta 92/M9 became the standard in 1990 and with everyone across the U.S. adopting it all other brands should just give it up and stop making anything else...

    BTW, I've been in 'small town gunshops' from LA to Atlanta in a dozen different cities and a half dozen states or more and they ALL had ammo in .45, .40, 9mm, .44 Mag, .38 SP, .357 Mag, .223/5.56, .308 & .30-06. Most of them had .357 Sig and .45-70 and more than half of them even had 10mm on the shelf when I was looking.

    I have no idea what is on the shelf during this panic. I haven't had much interest in what's been on the shelf in any of the panics over the past 20 years. I learned during the Clinton administration panics to buy at good prices and have enough on hand so you could ride the panic out. I wouldn't recommend picking a caliber based on what is left on the shelf after the panic crowd had bought everything they want because the hurricane is coming in or Biden is getting elected or somebody sneezed.

    .308/7.62 NATO is not dead. It is in use worldwide with many military end-users, police, and civilian shooters.
    The same cannot be said for .40S&W.

    Wilson Combat, arguably the largest custom gun shop in the country, discontinued .40S&W 1911s a few months ago.
    Many small LE agencies and Departments look to the FBI and other large PDs for guidance on issued equipment and firearms.

    The .40S&W professional user base has completely evaporated along with the argument for using it with advancements in 9mm bullet technology.

    I agree with you. Stock up on Ammo when it is available and cheap, not during a panic buying frenzy. That is common sense.

    .40S&W has lost its following of professional users (agencies and major departments). It might be commercially available for years to come (like 10mm) but it was put out to pasture years ago.
    Last edited by CGuns1; 05-16-2020 at 07:29 PM.

  11. #40
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    You know, Wilson Combat, a high end custom gunsmithing firm known mostly for their work on 1911s, which have NEVER been a popular platform for the .40 S&W caliber is NOT the company I would point to to illustrate this point even though they have done some limited custom Beretta and Glock pattern work. Those firearms have never really been the core of Wilson business and I suspect if they worked on the Beretta 96 or made a custom .40 Glock they simply priced themselves out of the market. I know I was planning on getting them to do a 1911 some 30 years ago or so but when production 1911 manufacturers picked up their game getting a full on custom 1911 mostly lost the appeal. I could get 95% of what I wanted at less than 50% of the price and that mostly remains true. I know two or three guys who talked about sending their Beretta pistols in to Wilson. None did and I think only one of them even bought Wilson parts to put in his gun.

    Better to cite the withdrawal of the Browning High Power in .40 some 15 or 20 years ago although that happened about the time FN was trying to stop making the BHP all together and claiming they would not sell firearms to civilians. The High Power has been discontinued in both 9mm and .40 for a while now.

    Civilians are still buying .40 S&W although as I said I expect the popularity will decrease I don't expect it to disappear any time soon.
    Last edited by StarWolf; 05-17-2020 at 05:39 AM.

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