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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega21 View Post
    @glow - as I understand it, they (not who who, maybe HK) added the new run of Urban Gray USPs to the CA roster as a "variation on an existing model" and then released this run. How hard would it be to add 9mm Elite to the roster as a variation of the .45? Here in Maryland we have a roster like you do in CA and have to get variants approved (though not color changes, that is just silly). When I added a SFP, P10 and P8 to the Maryland Handgun Roster it was a simple matter of submitting the paperwork packet to MD State Police and it going to the review board and getting approved (took 60 days). Since these were all variations of existing models already on the roster I did not have to submit a sample of the actual firearm, only pics and details. It's the exact same process for caliber additions of existing models. I realize CA is more strict than MD, but is a caliber designation change/addition really so difficult (or time consuming) that it wouldn't merit the profits dealers / HK could make from a Elite 9 CA re-release?
    Good question. AFAIK, MD accepts any pistol from the CA and MA rosters, too?

    The short answer is: No chance for a different caliber. 9mm Experts and Elites are not going to happen, barring a change in CA law.

    Any change that requires a manufacturing change of any sort (even a different supplier for an otherwise identical part) is considered a new gun, and needs microstamping, CLI, and magazine disconnect to get on the roster (in addition to $200 per year, and untold thousands out of pocket for a CA approved testing laboratory to "test" 3 samples of the pistol. The three samples are then property of CA DOJ BOF and the manufacturer is not compensated for their "donation" to CA Public Safety).

    There are only three exemptions for "variants:"

    1) Different color, so long as it doesn't alter the function or finish of any part - as determined by CA AG. The old AG, Harris, deemed color changes to be "changing a the function of a pistol," requiring full retesting. The new one clearly does not. BTW, there is some variance in this, wrt technical definitions of "identical finish." Tennifer, Melonite, and most other nitiriding processes are considered similar enough. Glock (legally speaking) only changed the paint/color when transitioning from the old frying pan "finish" to their current smoother finish.
    2) Different words (mostly to cover name changes, logo changes, importer moving to another city, etc). Importer is defined in GCA68.
    3) Night sights, on a non-night sight model. Very specifically, including night sights on a non-night sight model counts as a variant, and one that may be added (for another $200 yearly fee) without full retesting. S&W Shield recently got a new roster variant, that only involved new night sights.

    Technically speaking, the night sights do not need to be added to the roster, but some FFLs are really picky (I'd imagine any of the large corporate FFLs are), and will refuse to transfer some rostered SIG models, since SIG technically rostered the version with night sights, and vice versa.
    Last edited by glow; 04-22-2017 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #72
    I Bleed Urban Gray
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    Quote Originally Posted by glow View Post
    Good question.

    The short answer is: No chance for a different caliber. 9mm Experts and Elites are not going to happen, barring a change in CA law.

    Any change that requires a manufacturing change of any sort (even a different supplier for an otherwise identical part) is considered a new gun, and needs microstamping, CLI, and magazine disconnect to get on the roster (in addition to $200 per year, and untold thousands out of pocket for a CA approved testing laboratory to "test" 3 samples of the pistol. The three samples are then property of CA DOJ BOF and the manufacturer is not compensated for their "donation" to CA Public Safety).

    There are only three exemptions for "variants:"

    1) Different color, so long as it doesn't alter the function or finish of any part - as determined by CA AG. The old AG, Harris, deemed color changes to be "changing a the function of a pistol," requiring full retesting. The new one clearly does not. BTW, there is some variance in this, wrt technical definitions of "identical finish." Tennifer, Melonite, and most other nitiriding processes are considered similar enough. Glock (legally speaking) only changed the paint/color when transitioning from the old frying pan "finish" to their current smoother finish.
    2) Different words (mostly to cover name changes, logo changes, importer moving to another city, etc). Importer is defined in GCA68.
    3) Night sights, on a non-night sight model. Very specifically, including night sights on a non-night sight model counts as a variant, and one that may be added (for another $200 yearly fee) without full retesting. S&W Shield recently got a new roster variant, that only involved new night sights.

    Technically speaking, the night sights do not need to be added to the roster, but some FFLs are really picky (I'd imagine any of the large corporate FFLs are), and will refuse to transfer some rostered SIG models, since SIG technically rostered the version with night sights, and vice versa.
    And now I am even more sad for CA residents... The whole night sight is a different variant is just plain crazy!

    As far as your comment "AFAIK, MD accepts any pistol from the CA and MA rosters, too?" MD doesn't "accept" anything based on other states, it evaluates models independently by a board (only models made after Jan 1, 1985. Older models are not subject to the MD Roster as long as they are not banned by name). It also has a list of banned and "assault pistols" that are not allowed to be transferred in the state (e.g. SP89). The MD Roster historically was designed to keep cheap "Saturday Night Specials" off the streets. Things like Ravens, Davis Arms, Cobra Arms tend to not be approved on the roster because of safety issues related to the alloys they are made from, and guns like the excellent NAA mini-revolvers are disallowed because of lack of trigger guards. Anyway, the roster has been used as a tool to stifle arms possession in MD. Right now, however, the attitude of the handgun board is 'give us a reason to disapprove the gun' so things have been getting approved nicely since our new Republican governor took office e.g. SP5K, Omega OM9, numerous AR15 pistols (even though many DI AR models are banned in MD), numerous AK pistols (even though AKs are banned in MD). But they still routinely disapprove guns that don't meet the legal safety requirements such as lacking a trigger guard. Approval by the Board is pretty easy. Fill out this form
    http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizatio...20Petition.pdf
    and provide a sample of the gun to the Board to review (they do not shoot it, and they do return it). As I noted earlier, variants don't require you to submit a sample, just a form (so I was easily able to add the SFP, P8 and P10 to the roster). Color variations are not considered variations requiring approval and neither are sights. Lately they have been liberal with caliber variations too. For example, you don't need to submit a sample for a caliber addition and some guns (e.g. HK VP) were approved in 9mm, .40 and .45 even though the Board only reviewed the 9mm sample.

    I have to say, if the only HKs on the CA roster are USPs and P2000s then soon when those legacy lines stop being produced by HK (IF HK chooses to stop paying the $200 annual renewal fee) CA citizens won't be able to buy any HK pistols. Is that a correct assessment (excluding mil)? I'm assuming P7s are not rostered simply because HK doesn't pay the fee for them anymore...
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  3. #73
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    @omega21

    Thanks for the information on MD's handgun roster system. It's nice to hear MD doesn't destructively waste pistols.

    Yeah, HK paid for the roster renewals of the P7M8 all the way until 2013.

    Notably, the CA roster has a few pistols still rostered by PW Arms up in Washington (if they are still around). The Sig P6 and the Walther P1. Amusingly, this means for a CA FLL to sell from inventory (which basically includes any pistol bought from an out-of-state source, i.e, at an auction or gunbroker), the P6 in particular must have been imported by PW Arms, not Century Arms (which is annoying, since a majority were imported by Century). I only single out the P6, since that is the one I am certain about.

    Beretta, oddly, chooses to list some pistols long after they have left production, but also choose to delist some selectively. This benefited CA when Beretta was in the tooling run-up to the WC Brigadier Tactical, and the released the 92G-SD after nearly a decade of non-production. However, they delisted the 92FS compact, even though they still import small batches from time to time. I have a few guesses as to why, but as with nearly everything Beretta, nothing concrete. Up until this year, the Beretta Cougar (not the Stoeger Cougar, this distinction is sadly critical to CA) was still on the roster, even though Beretta had long since sold the tooling to Stoeger.

    FN still lists the FNP9.

    Here is to hoping the new DA isn't an anti-gun zealot like Harris was.

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  5. #74
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    Yep it is nice for HK to still support CA ...

    For any one wondering these are the only on list HK handguns in CA ..Now you can still get them PPT ie meet a dude at a gun shop do the ffl etc ..But often now with SSE pretty much dead prices have gone up
    P2000SK-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.27" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    P2000SK-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.27" 9mm 1/1/2018
    P2000 SK-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.3" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    P2000 SK-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.3" 9mm 1/1/2018
    Comp USP40 V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.58" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    Comp USP9 V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.58" 9mm 1/1/2018
    USP Comp 40 Stnls V1 / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.58" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    USP Comp 9 Stnls V1 / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.58" 9mm 1/1/2018
    USP40C-LEM / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.58" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    P2000-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    P2000-V2 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm 1/1/2018
    P2000-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    P2000-V3 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.66" 9mm 1/1/2018
    Comp USP45 V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.8" .45 ACP 1/1/2018
    USP Comp 45 Stnls V1 / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 3.80" .45 ACP 1/1/2018
    USP40, V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.25" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    USP9, V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.25" 9mm 1/1/2018
    USP45, V1 (Black frame) / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.41" .45 ACP 1/1/2018
    USP45, V1 (Grey frame) / Steel; Polymer Pistol 4.41" .45 ACP 1/1/2018
    USP 40 Exp.V9 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 5.20" .40 S&W 1/1/2018
    USP 45 Exp.V1 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 5.20" .45 ACP 1/1/2018
    USP 45 Elite / Steel, Polymer Pistol 6" .45 ACP 1/1/2018


    Once they fall out (ie make changes to them as noted above ) or dont pay the fee ..They as noted wont come back on the list no micro stampting no semi autos on list

    Also yeah 45 makes sense as you can only have 10 round mags so go for big bullets

    And yeah threaded barrels are full ban ... Just having one on its own on a handgun will class it as a AW and in very big trouble ..Now you could pin a muzzle break or such to it or other weird stuff ..But yeah no ..

    I have seen MK23 from CA that have some funky barrels on them due to that

  6. #75
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    I just bought one of theses at Turners Outdoors for $899.95. Damn I wish they would stop making colored frame pistols, lol.
    SR9-TC,91,MR762,416 10 inch,SL-6,SL-7,SL-8x2,MP-5N,USC and a USC to UMP 45,Tan and Black Mark 23, USP 45 Elite&Expert,USP Expert 9mmx2,USP 45T Black-Tan-Green frame's,USP 45CT,USP 45 Match HE&SS,USP 45f Green-Grey-Tan Frame's,USP 45c 50th,USP 40T,USP 40f Custom Combat Green-Tan Frame,USP 40c Green-Grey-Tan Frame's,USP 9mm SS,USP 357c,USP 9T,P2000 & P2000sk 357,HK45,HK45T Tan-OD-Black,HK45T&45 all Tan,HK45c FDEx2,VP9x3,P9S,P7 PSP,P7 M8 w/TB,VP70Z,4.380x2,19mm Flare Gunx2,26mm Flare Gunx3

  7. #76
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    Just picked mine up.

  8. #77
    I Bleed Urban Gray
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkpsp View Post
    It's the exact same color as the previous urban grey usp's.
    Wrong. See my post (#27) here: https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgu...ml#post2685033

  9. #78
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    Picked mine up yesterday also ordered from TSS I am very happy w/ the darker gray.

  10. #79
    I Bleed Urban Gray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conwayfl View Post
    Picked mine up yesterday also ordered from TSS I am very happy w/ the darker gray.
    I think most people will be happy like you @Conwyfl , which is likely why HK did it. Most folks were not fans of the "blue" Urban Gray of 2004. The current "VP9" HK Grey is much more in keeping with modern tactical grays and I think has had a good reception in the VP9 line and maybe the P30 release (but I'm not sure). There's just a few purists (or fools) like me who really prefer the Urban Gray of 2004 over the current version. I was disappointed when my 2017 grey USP45 arrived yesterday, but I bet I'm in the minority.

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