HK 433- will it ever be on the rack at the LGS? - Page 2
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Thread: HK 433- will it ever be on the rack at the LGS?

  1. #11
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    And again, random reminder that its a US Legal issue, not a German one. You can get MR223A3 etc over in Canada.

    edit: and before someone doubts this:
    https://www.firearmsoutletcanada.com...23-rem-11.html

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    My analysis? No. We'll never see an HK 433 for civvie sale in the US. We don't even have a proper HK-produced G36.

    Could it be done, technically? Of course. Will it be done? No.

    In any case: I predict "no"

    We'll never see an HK433, MP7 or ready-to-go G36.
    I'll be the odd man out and say that I bet it'll be available here in the U.S. at some point. No evidence to back up my assumption of course, but HK had the 433 at SHOT Show this year and I'm thinking they're testing the waters for interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusandCo View Post
    HK needs to just move their corporate headquarters to the U.S., and stop getting kicked around by the German press and government. It's just unbelievable what they have to put up with. They really can't win. Maybe here, or Ireland?

    There are even "human rights observer" organizations whose sole purpose in life seems to be trying to shut down the company. They and the left in Germany act like HK is worse than the Khmer Rouge, I've even read hare-brained write-ups where they try to quantify how many humans have been killed with the G-3 rifle, and infer that HK is culpable for each death. It's just unbelievable. For instance, they have literally traced every country in South America which has ever used any HK products (pretty much most of them) and infer that HK is complicit in profiteering, arms proliferation and basically war crimes, because of where their firearms end up, and the fact that people still get shot with them. The fact that the older generation of roller-locks seem to remain functional for so long only adds fuel to the fire. Never mind that a large percentage of the HK weapons in South America have been provided by third-party nations, who bought them legitimately, and from contract facilities.

    And don't get me started on the German government banning sales to the Mexican government, due to human rights violations. God forbid the police and military be better armed than the cartels. And Mexico is gonna' be above 170K homicides this year, and those are the ones they know about, 95% at least of those are organized crime related.

    It's amazing HK can sell anything anywhere, given the resistance they face in Germany and with the EU, regarding the exportation of firearms.
    They really should just move to the US...been saying that for years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8shtr View Post
    I'll be the odd man out and say that I bet it'll be available here in the U.S. at some point. No evidence to back up my assumption of course, but HK had the 433 at SHOT Show this year and I'm thinking they're testing the waters for interest.
    HK doesn't need to test any waters...they sell pretty much all MR556s as it is...they know they have the market for it...heck...I would sell all my firearms to get two, proper non-nurtured HK 417 and 416...

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehun View Post
    They really should just move to the US...been saying that for years...
    No, they shouldn't.

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    WHAT was that plant in GA built for again????
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    The frost sometimes makes the blade stick!!!! I miss G3Kurz..

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    Pains me to say it but the current reality for gun owners in places like CA, NJ, ect. is probably gonna spread like cancer nationwide eventually.

    Besides that, it would be enormously expensive to set up a civvie HK 433 production line in the US and the market is already swamped with very cheap and reliable .223 ARs.

    Consequently, we'll never see 433's on gun store racks.

    On the military/LE side nobody seems to be beating down HK's doors to get the 433 either... HK may already have a flop on their hands even if it's objectively a decent gun.
    Last edited by Chango; 12-23-2018 at 02:26 PM.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    -- technically speaking, it would be quite an investment on HK's part to get molds, tooling, and production facilities for polymer receivers set up in the US.
    Huge investment? You mean shipping molds from Germany to the US? They don't have to ship injection molding machines, just molds.

    When they have the will to do it, they can. Y'all know they sell MR556s here, right? Legally, there is no difference.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chango View Post

    On the military/LE side nobody seems to be beating down HK's doors to get the 433 either... HK may already have a flop on their hands even if it's objectively a decent gun.
    I still say the Bundeswehr will adopt it, and other, limited military sales will follow.

    As for HK, their latest stated policy is, correct me if I'm wrong, to only sell to "green" countries (determined by NATO membership or NATO equivalency, & "Transparency International’s corruption perceptions index", and "Economist Intelligence Unit’s democracy index") and to avoid sales to "conflict zones". On top of that they have to abide by EU arms exportation and proliferation policies. This is a lot to saddle an arms manufacturer with, and is often times wrong-headed.

    The example which I still remember, and mentioned earlier, was that when the German government banned the sales of weapons to Mexico, due to legit human rights violations (mostly attributable to official corruption and collusion with organized crime). Two of the users of the G36 rifles at the time that I became aware of it (around 2009), were the Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana Municipal police departments. At that time both departments were having literally dozens of their officers targeted and gunned down by local cartels, on a weekly basis. Particularly, officers who were not "on the take", and leaders attempting to root out corruption were being targeted. I remember 7 municipal officers being killed in Tijuana in one night, for example. The officers were significantly outgunned, with most not having long-arms, and also very much under-armored. In my eyes, that was an example of this well-intentioned "social justice" policy having very negative effects on the ground. The cartels, on the other hand, are money heavy, and have no trouble acquiring modern rifles.

    I just think HK needs to consider if moving their corporate HQ to another country would increase the viability of their business. Avoiding conflicts and war zones, and transferring culpability for the human costs of conflicts from the actual bad actors to Oberndorf may be a recipe for bankruptcy, and still will not show a positive effect in any of these conflict zones. I think the common sense solution is to arm the good guys (or the least bad guys). I also think that there is considerable money for HK to make here in the U.S. civilian market. There are a lot of people who want something other than an AR-15. As the saying goes, "If you can't make a dollar, make a dime."
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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusandCo View Post
    I still say the Bundeswehr will adopt it, and other, limited military sales will follow.

    As for HK, their latest stated policy is, correct me if I'm wrong, to only sell to "green" countries (determined by NATO membership or NATO equivalency, & "Transparency International’s corruption perceptions index", and "Economist Intelligence Unit’s democracy index") and to avoid sales to "conflict zones". On top of that they have to abide by EU arms exportation and proliferation policies. This is a lot to saddle an arms manufacturer with, and is often times wrong-headed.

    The example which I still remember, and mentioned earlier, was that when the German government banned the sales of weapons to Mexico, due to legit human rights violations (mostly attributable to official corruption and collusion with organized crime). Two of the users of the G36 rifles at the time that I became aware of it (around 2009), were the Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana Municipal police departments. At that time both departments were having literally dozens of their officers targeted and gunned down by local cartels, on a weekly basis. Particularly, officers who were not "on the take", and leaders attempting to root out corruption were being targeted. I remember 7 municipal officers being killed in Tijuana in one night, for example. The officers were significantly outgunned, with most not having long-arms, and also very much under-armored. In my eyes, that was an example of this well-intentioned "social justice" policy having very negative effects on the ground. The cartels, on the other hand, are money heavy, and have no trouble acquiring modern rifles.

    I just think HK needs to consider if moving their corporate HQ to another country would increase the viability of their business. Avoiding conflicts and war zones, and transferring culpability for the human costs of conflicts from the actual bad actors to Oberndorf may be a recipe for bankruptcy, and still will not show a positive effect in any of these conflict zones. I think the common sense solution is to arm the good guys (or the least bad guys). I also think that there is considerable money for HK to make here in the U.S. civilian market. There are a lot of people who want something other than an AR-15. As the saying goes, "If you can't make a dollar, make a dime."
    You are right that they could sell guns to more countries.
    Part of why HK guns are so popular is because they are made in Germany. If they moved their facilities to the US, they would have enormous trouble keeping their quality standards, finding labour force (machinists, etc) and their quality would drop.
    Making such changes to a company for some short term profits is never a good thing. After maybe 5 years all the HK fans in the US would have their guns and for the rest they would still be way too expensive (Muh AR does the same thing for a third of the price). Therefore civilian sales would decrease. Some countries (Germany for example) won't buy ITAR guns.
    I'm honestly not sure if there is so much money to make in the US civilian market.

    If you take a look at the AR market, you can observe an economic phenomenon.
    If the products are all the same (and pretty much all there ARs are), profits will go to zero.

    Look at American gun companies (Sig Sauer, Freedom group, colt, etc) and tell me if you want to see HK go the same path as they did.

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