HK 433- will it ever be on the rack at the LGS? - Page 3
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Thread: HK 433- will it ever be on the rack at the LGS?

  1. #21
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    Well, I imagine that my opinion mirrors that of most HK fans when I say there's nothing on Earth I'd more like to nab than an HK433. I'd sell a couple/few other guns to make that happen. Whether we'll ever see it or not, well, I have no idea. But we can dream!
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    Huge investment? You mean shipping molds from Germany to the US? They don't have to ship injection molding machines, just molds.
    Agreed, just like Beretta did with the ARX (another recent, largely polymer semi auto version of a military rifle).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    Huge investment? You mean shipping molds from Germany to the US? They don't have to ship injection molding machines, just molds.

    When they have the will to do it, they can. Y'all know they sell MR556s here, right? Legally, there is no difference.
    Yeah, I don't know about that. Germany has export laws, and the USA has import laws. The HK243 / semi-G36 gun is available in Canada. Not in the US. Because of the law.
    The MR556's are not 100% made in Germany. Some German parts, some US parts.

    The MR556 lower, as I recall, is not made in Germany.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    Yeah, I don't know about that. Germany has export laws, and the USA has import laws. The HK243 / semi-G36 gun is available in Canada. Not in the US. Because of the law.
    The MR556's are not 100% made in Germany. Some German parts, some US parts.
    You're making my point for me.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by eodinert View Post
    You're making my point for me.
    Not really. The receivers are US made. The G36/433 receiver would have to be US-made. The German government is pretty restrictive, as I understand it, about letting the production tech go overseas. The MR556 lower is nothing special at all. There was no reason for the government to restrict it from US production, since it is a US design to begin with, and millions are made here every day. Regarding the MR556, HK basically had to say "We improved the Yank rifle and want to compete in their domestic market." German government? Sure go ahead.
    Regarding the G36 / 433 they have to say "We want to produce Kraut space magic in the US." Nein!

    The G36 and 433 are different animals. I have heard, but have no way to verify, that HK needed permission from the government to allow tooling for the G3 receivers to go overseas.

    The HK243 / Canuck import is an entirely German-made rifle. The 243 is good for German export, but not US import.

    To make a G36 clone, HK would have to do it in the US -- German doesn't want the means of production to make it overseas.

    Hence, Canucks get 243s but Yanks don't.

    IF you think any of this points to an easy way to produce a 433 on US soil, or to get one into the country, you need to re-read my comments.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by sickness; 12-27-2018 at 06:21 PM.

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    I find it hard to believe they would drop nearly $30 million on a facility to manufacture the same products that they were already selling commercially without a US facility. Import and export restrictions taken into consideration, I don't think this facility was built with just HK45's and MR556's in mind. We already had those before the Columbus plant was up and running.


    Tspeis

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tspeis View Post
    I find it hard to believe they would drop nearly $30 million on a facility to manufacture the same products that they were already selling commercially without a US facility. Import and export restrictions taken into consideration, I don't think this facility was built with just HK45's and MR556's in mind. We already had those before the Columbus plant was up and running.


    Tspeis
    Producing the M27? I suspect that US procurement procedures would favor companies producing the items domestically.

    Look, I'm not trying to be a kill-joy here, you can go ahead and hope all you like.

    I hope we'll get HK243's and some type of semi 433. That would be awesome.

    I just don't think its likely.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehun View Post
    HK doesn't need to test any waters...they sell pretty much all MR556s as it is...they know they have the market for it...heck...I would sell all my firearms to get two, proper non-nurtured HK 417 and 416...
    MR556s are best sellers? That’s news to me.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by airforce1 View Post
    MR556s are best sellers? That’s news to me.
    Depends how you define best sellers, since they only make limited quantities. Do they sell a large number, No. Do they sell all they make, Yes.

  11. #30
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    I think HK can easily make high-quality products here in the U.S. They have a track record of setting up HK factories in places where one would be afraid to drink the water, and which are then able to produce high-quality weapons. And roller-locks, as we have all seen, are not easy to produce, without a great deal of specific skills and attention to detail in the right places. Cost-effective in terms of resources, maybe, but definitely not modular or simple to build correctly. I've never heard anyone say that Turkish or Pakistani G3's were anything but serviceable. My Greek SAR 3/8 has always seemed to me to be the virtual equal of a German produced HK-91. I think FN has been able to produce very high-end products here in the U.S. I carried a number of FN made M16A2 rifles as an infantryman, and thought that they were beautifully made, easily the equal of a Colt produced rifle.

    SIG/Sauer is definitely a cautionary tale, but most of their problems were self-inflicted. I think they made a conscious decision to be dismissive of quality, and to try and push a "quantity over quality" marketing plan, which blew up in their faces. They also seemed to have truncated their R&D process, pushing guns out to the public which were imperfect and problematic, and which soiled a hard-earned reputation. They also have abandoned platforms which American consumers had invested in, which created more animus against them. I carried a one of two German made SIG pistols for years at work, and loved them. To this day I would pay more for a German made SIG pistol. And sure, I think a German made SIG or HK product will always fetch a premium.

    I think that HK needs to decide what systems should be built in Oberndorf, and what might be more fruitful to build off-shore. I think most of their handguns and anything the Bundeswehr adopts will have to be built there, and potentially weapons adopted by other nations within the EU, as well. I think it is mostly long-arms of military relevance, as well as "sporter rifles", which they intend to sell outside of Europe, which they should consider building elsewhere. And this only if they relocate their HQ outside the EU. Maybe Switzerland would work, I’m not stuck on the idea of HK becoming an American company.

    If HK remains a German-based company, they will continue to be governed by the same kooky and self-loathing restrictions, which dictate that shipping arms to the "good guys" in any given "conflict zone" makes them culpable and complicit in any loss of life. They can't even sell weapons to Israel. Imagine if this had been U.S. policy during WWII. I wonder if even the Siberians wouldn’t be speaking German.

    I also think HK could sell hundreds of thousands of domestically produced rifles, here in the U.S., if they could get the pricing and marketing formula right. An HK433 sporter is a perfect example of something people would buy here, especially if it is adopted by the Bundeswehr, or other militaries, which I think it will be. I'd certainly buy one, if they could sell one for $2K or less. There will always be a need and a market here for something that is not an AR-15, and those people will pay twice the price of a good AR-15, and often more.

    HK's global marketing plan also used to include licensed production of their weapons systems, set up by them, and under their terms. I don’t see this as viable if they remain an EU-centric company. For the present, they will apparently have to get their global marketing advice and strategy from Transparency International, the Economist Intelligence Unit, and the pack of pacifist, left-leaning arms control kooks who bought single shares in the company, in hopes of shutting it down.
    Last edited by FergusandCo; 12-29-2018 at 02:27 AM.
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