Anybody Experiencing Sear Anxiety Yet? - Page 8
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Thread: Anybody Experiencing Sear Anxiety Yet?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdogconcept View Post
    i have been dealing with atf since the mid 70's and can tell you when agents in the field are talking about something it eventually happens.

    atf has two distinct parts within itself:

    1.) administrative - i will make no comment about how they profile or pick them you can figure that out or use your imagination.

    2.) enforcement - believe it or not they are mostly firearm enthusiast who love the country and the second and are not happy either with infringements. just really good people.

    manufacturer's like myself often perform work for branches of the government and through the years build relationships both professionally and personally. so when word starts circulating that atf has raised it's head about the extraordinary prices of transferables and that atf are considering what actions could be taken to cash in on it themselves - i listen. i have no profit motivation to make anyone aware of this, i have no desire to own anything transferable because i can make anything i want anytime i want for cheap.

    these are not rumors, i think it's an open discussion within the agency and they are in fact gathering information to determine a course of action to take. when who knows, i have heard about it for three years now pretty steady and from various other manufacturers i know.

    also i practice what i preach and have sold off all my transferables many that i owned since the mid 70's they are all gone. this is not to say anything other than you need to be aware that anything can happen and it can happen quickly and without congress being involved whatsoever. what is going to happen who knows but not at least considering scenarios no matter how unlikely is really not wise. i look at transferables like ocean front property, no matter if you own it - you could still wind up with nothing one day.

    mark
    If you are talking about opening the registry back up or simply removing machineguns and silencers from the NFA, the ATF can't do that. Only Congress can, or the Supreme Court (since the Supreme Court already ruled on the NFA in Miller, upholding it, it would have to go back through them to take it down).

    Now, if you are talking about the ATF changing policy to disallow sears to be transfered between hosts, then that is something probably within the purview of the ATF. However, I find it hard to believe the ATF would bother as it doesn't really net them anything (it's not like crimes are being committed with registered DIAS and HK sears) and it's been established policy for, what, going on 50 years, since the early HK shelf redesigns in the 60's? What would cause them to even discuss it now? It's not like the Trust membership thing that Obama started blathering about. I haven't heard one peep from an elected jerkoff, I mean politician, about HK sears or DIAS. I doubt they even know what they are.

    So what would drive this change? The ATF are upset that DIAS and HK sears are selling for more than registered receivers? What do they care, they get their $200 whether they sell for $100k or $.50? It doesn't make much sense to me.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I'd love for the registry to be opened back up. I'd be more than willing to take a complete bath on my M16 and HK sear, if I could get a full auto P90, AK47, PKM, RPD, etc for just a few grand a piece. That would be totally worth that trade to me (and I imagine a large number of other machinegun owners, other than the few collectors and high grade dealers like Rueben and Frank, who would take a bath as they see their guns as investements).

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7n6 View Post
    I'm not following you, they are going to unban transferables? They already get a $200 tax stamp which is illegal already since they cannot tax a right- so now they want more money?
    Has the government ever wanted less money?
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugnut View Post

    Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE it if sears had the same attributes as the pickup truck ...

    YMMV

    I wish my pickup truck had the same attributes my sears. Buy it for $30K, drive the hell out of it, sell it for $75K 5 years later.

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  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastardsonofelvis View Post
    Has the government ever wanted less money?
    Yes

    NFA taxes have been reduced in the past. $5 AOW example.

  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    So what would drive this change? The ATF are upset that DIAS and HK sears are selling for more than registered receivers? What do they care, they get their $200 whether they sell for $100k or $.50? It doesn't make much sense to me.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I'd love for the registry to be opened back up. I'd be more than willing to take a complete bath on my M16 and HK sear, if I could get a full auto P90, AK47, PKM, RPD, etc for just a few grand a piece. That would be totally worth that trade to me (and I imagine a large number of other machinegun owners, other than the few collectors and high grade dealers like Rueben and Frank, who would take a bath as they see their guns as investements).
    i have not heard anything about hk sears and moving them from host to host. but since it was brought up you can bet atf will be looking to close that loophole with any "opening of the registry" they may be considering in the future.

    200 btw is the fee for decades now what makes you think that reflects reality. look i paid 200 tax when a mac 10 cost 100 so do the math the tax should now be 10,000 not 200. yea it matters to them believe me.

  7. #76
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    As to the ATF's possible motivation to restrict the movement of sears between HK guns, it could really be as simple as direction from their political masters, i.e. whoever the current administration is. I'm sure there aren't terribly many INDIVIDUALS in the ATF who want to remove rights, but let's be real, it's a political organization. For the most part they do what daddy tells them. I'm sure there weren't a lot of individual IRS agents wanting to target republican/conservative organizations either. But when your boss tells you to do something.... Sure, the politicians don't know anything about sears or transferable machine guns. Everyone reading this knows damn well lack of knowledge has ever stopped them. And they don't need to know. All they have to do is instruct the ATF to restrict firearms in any way they think they can get away with and inflict maximum pain for exercising 2A and let the experts come up with how. Hell, it's probably better for them that they don't know. Now if they get exposed they can hang high-level ATF employees out to dry and claim ignorance. Again, see the IRS thing. Or for a more direct example, the state-sponsored gun running to Mexican cartels.

    I don't mean to say I personally think any of this is LIKELY, merely just counter the thought that the ATF would never do such a thing.

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    As to the ATF's possible motivation to restrict the movement of sears between HK guns, it could really be as simple as direction from their political masters, i.e. whoever the current administration is. I'm sure there aren't terribly many INDIVIDUALS in the ATF who want to remove rights, but let's be real, it's a political organization. For the most part they do what daddy tells them. I'm sure there weren't a lot of individual IRS agents wanting to target republican/conservative organizations either. But when your boss tells you to do something.... Sure, the politicians don't know anything about sears or transferable machine guns. Everyone reading this knows damn well lack of knowledge has ever stopped them. And they don't need to know. All they have to do is instruct the ATF to restrict firearms in any way they think they can get away with and inflict maximum pain for exercising 2A and let the experts come up with how. Hell, it's probably better for them that they don't know. Now if they get exposed they can hang high-level ATF employees out to dry and claim ignorance. Again, see the IRS thing. Or for a more direct example, the state-sponsored gun running to Mexican cartels.

    I don't mean to say I personally think any of this is LIKELY, merely just counter the thought that the ATF would never do such a thing.
    The logistics would be a nightmare, especially for the ATF. To limit movement of a registered sear (and that impacts more things that just the HK guns), they'd have to start a new registration process to have owners systematically attach their registered sear to a single gun serial number. So the guys who bought a bunch of sears for investment would be forced to buy a gun for each one, or they'd have to come up with some option to handle that. But the re-registration paperwork would be crazy.

    I'd really hate it. I have one sear and about 14 hosts. Trying to figure out which gun would get the sear permanently would be like trying to figure out which of your children you love the most. And then having to tell the rest of them to move out.
    "Sometimes change sucks."- Anne Frank

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  9. #78
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    Of course it would be an enforcement nightmare, but so are most of the gun laws already on the books. They can throw it out there on the honor system and then publicly crucify anyone they might just happen to catch accidentally.

  10. #79
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    I guess you can never put anything past the ATF.

    However, it seems like a waste of time and effort on their end and there is no benefit to the ATF. There are what maybe 3000 Fleming/Qualified Sears, 1500 S&H, and maybe another 500 misc between HTA/Ceiner/Homebrew F1s/Etc.

    Figure there are approx. 5000 HK Sears out there total that are owned by a couple thousand individual owners since many folks own two, three, or more sears and some percentage have been lost/destroyed when the widow threw out grandpas shoebox of misc gun parts.

    It doesn't seem like its worth the regulatory effort and/or the potential lawsuit from some deep pocketed owner to get new regulation on the books that affects at most a couple thousand people who own a $30K piece of metal.

  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbntex View Post
    I guess you can never put anything past the ATF.

    However, it seems like a waste of time and effort on their end and there is no benefit to the ATF.
    I dont know any ATF agents, but I do know that ATF has moved from designating a caliber for a sear in box 4c on form 4's from 9mm, .223, .308 or multi to Now the Gold standard is "N/A" in box 4c so it would seem if they were trying to tie them to a certain caliber/host they would Not have gone to N/A........just my nickel............This whole rumor story just reminds me of the story that came out about a year ago about Fleming an S&H sears going to ruled illegal because they filed their paper work Two days late in May of 86............. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...transferrable/
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