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Thread: Where did you engrave your MP5?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SudS View Post
    With this new interpretation by ATF, I'm curious if they no longer allow SOTs to register a trigger pack or sear as a post sample? After all, that pack/sear will have it's markings obstructed (non conspicuous) and will require the removal of various parts to be able to read them. And no, the trigger housing would not be acceptable unless that trigger housing were part of the post sample and it stayed with the internals. If so, then an SOT would need a seperate post sample lower for a k gun.
    This is an excellent point, SudS.

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    If you have a approved Form 1, is it legal to have someone do the work on the gun i.e. replace the barrel and then send it to you so you can have it engraved or do they have to engrave it before it leaves their shop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer View Post
    If you have a approved Form 1, is it legal to have someone do the work on the gun i.e. replace the barrel and then send it to you so you can have it engraved or do they have to engrave it before it leaves their shop?

    It needs to be engraved when the making is completed. The best solution to this is to only send the smith the BBL'ed upper. He replaces BBL, you get it back. Then you add stock, Trigger Group and the SBR is now "made".

    I myself would have engraved when I sent in the form 1.

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    It needs to be engraved when the making is completed. The best solution to this is to only send the smith the BBL'ed upper. He replaces BBL, you get it back. Then you add stock, Trigger Group and the SBR is now "made".

    I myself would have engraved when I sent in the form 1.
    So you can send the BBL'ed upper (stripped receiver & barrel only) off to have the barrel replaced and any other work done and the smith can then send it back to you for you to engrave and add stock & trigger group. Do I have this correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmbrwulf View Post
    Ident Engraving did my SBR marking in the receiver channel. Jayson explained the disputed locations. I don't even realize the marking in the receiver channel anymore. They did a great job.
    ive used IDENT on my ar15 lowers and it looks great

    did they happen to mark yours after mp5 finish was applied to the receiver?....starting to wonder if it would be better to send off a couple MP5 series uppers to IDENT...rather be safe then sorry

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    Default Where did you engrave your MP5?

    The instructions to not engrave the receiver on the tang are a grotesque overreach by ATF agents. The law says the engraving must be conspicuous in the sense it can't be too small or shallow or otherwise done in a way that could make it easily obliterated. It DOES NOT say it must conspicuously located -- in fact it says located on the barrel, slide, or receiver -- my choice where. Engraving is done for two reasons; crime investigation and administration of the NFA (to make sure tax is paid). Marking must enable the EFFECTIVE administration of the NFA, it is not required to make it easy for agents who are "tired" of locating marks during inspections. The law even says engraving can be waived if I can offer an acceptable alternative that still permits EFFECTIVE administration of the NFA. While I can see why gunsmiths get extorted by inspection agents to do whatever capricious things they think up to make the job they do -- and that as a taxpayer I pay for -- "easier," they don't have that leverage over me and I will continue to follow the LAW. The information must be on the barrel, receiver, or slide in a conspicuous OR engraved manner, i.e not subject to obliteration. It does not say engraved in a conspicuous location. And I don't think the language of the law is ambiguous or by chance. Once you have the information engraved to the specified depth and size, the requirements for effective administration of the NFA have been met. An agent will be able to determine if the tax has been paid and LE will be able to do a rapid and accurate trace on the firearm.


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    Last edited by GPSIG; 07-13-2017 at 02:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPSIG View Post
    The instructions to not engrave the receiver on the tang are a grotesque overreach by ATF agents. The law says the engraving must be conspicuous in the sense it can't be too small or shallow or otherwise done in a way that could make it easily obliterated. It DOES NOT say it must conspicuously located -- in fact it says located on the barrel, slide, or receiver -- my choice where. Engraving is done for two reasons; crime investigation and administration of the NFA (to make sure tax is paid). Marking must enable the EFFECTIVE administration of the NFA, it is not required to make it easy for agents who are "tired" of locating marks during inspections. The law even says engraving can be waived if I can offer an acceptable alternative that still permits EFFECTIVE administration of the NFA. While I can see why gunsmiths get extorted by inspection agents to do whatever capricious things they think up to make the job they do -- and that as a taxpayer I pay for -- "easier," they don't have that leverage over me and I will continue to follow the LAW. The information must be on the barrel, receiver, or slide in a conspicuous OR engraved manner, i.e not subject to obliteration. It does not say engraved in a conspicuous location. And I don't think the language of the law is ambiguous or by chance. Once you have the information engraved to the specified depth and size, the requirements for effective administration of the NFA have been met. An agent will be able to determine if the tax has been paid and LE will be able to do a rapid and accurate trace on the firearm.

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    This was the email I received from the Tech Branch July 12th on placing the markings on the rear tang, I sent a photo of the rear tang and asked specifically about placing it there.

    The location depicted in that photograph is on the receiver but it will be covered when the firearm is assembled.



    27 CFR, § 478.92 (a) (1) Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:

    (i) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

    (ii) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

    (A) The model, if such designation has been made;

    (B) The caliber or gauge;

    (C) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer;

    (D) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business; and

    (E) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer View Post
    This was the email I received from the Tech Branch July 12th on placing the markings on the rear tang, I sent a photo of the rear tang and asked specifically about placing it there.

    The location depicted in that photograph is on the receiver but it will be covered when the firearm is assembled.



    27 CFR, § 478.92 (a) (1) Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:

    (i) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

    (ii) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

    (A) The model, if such designation has been made;

    (B) The caliber or gauge;

    (C) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer;

    (D) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business; and

    (E) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

    Is it me, or did they not specifically address the tang?

    What about placing an accessory on the gun which covers some required markings? If I bolt on my B&T low mount on my MP5, the model is concealed. If the engraving is on the trunion area of the receiver, a longer tropical hand guard may conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a slim hand guard). If the markings are inside the rail, adding a retractable stock could conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a fixed stock). Is concealing the markings under these circumstances be permitted?

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SudS View Post
    Is it me, or did they not specifically address the tang?

    What about placing an accessory on the gun which covers some required markings? If I bolt on my B&T low mount on my MP5, the model is concealed. If the engraving is on the trunion area of the receiver, a longer tropical hand guard may conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a slim hand guard). If the markings are inside the rail, adding a retractable stock could conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a fixed stock). Is concealing the markings under these circumstances be permitted?
    I was looking for a no you can't or yes you can, but your dealing with the gov't so you never get a clear answer to a question and is still left kinda in the grey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SudS View Post
    What about placing an accessory on the gun which covers some required markings? If I bolt on my B&T low mount on my MP5, the model is concealed. If the engraving is on the trunion area of the receiver, a longer tropical hand guard may conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a slim hand guard). If the markings are inside the rail, adding a retractable stock could conceal the markings (that would not be concealed with a fixed stock). Is concealing the markings under these circumstances be permitted?
    The marking requirement falls on the MFG/maker, not the end user. End users are free to cover up the markings as they want, provided it does not result in it being "susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed."

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