SP5K SBR's...what's your Overall Length? - Page 3
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Thread: SP5K SBR's...what's your Overall Length?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post
    I realize this is a bit out of the ordinary, being that this is the NFA area ..

    But I'd like to AVOID NFA stamps with my SP5k. So.. rather than SBR, I'll be using a brace. So it's still a pistol.
    Pistols can't have vertical grips if they are under 26" in length.

    Is there a brace that when fully extended would get the SP5k to over 26"? Close? (within 4") - because I plan to rebarrel anyhow, and could pin something onto the threads.
    Interesting idea maybe an 8.5” barrel with 3 lug and threads might at the 4” perhaps a custom lengthened brace but then it probably needs the wide MP5 forend and I agree the OEM MP5 vertical grip is so cool . Be sure to post if you figure something out oh and I guess it needs to be 922r oh wait we don’t want to make an SBR can a pistol even be over 26” ???
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoLode View Post
    Interesting idea maybe an 8.5” barrel with 3 lug and threads might at the 4” perhaps a custom lengthened brace but then it probably needs the wide MP5 forend and I agree the OEM MP5 vertical grip is so cool . Be sure to post if you figure something out oh and I guess it needs to be 922r oh wait we don’t want to make an SBR can a pistol even be over 26” ???
    Yeah, I'm no lawyer, but as I understand it 26"+ for a pistol is fine. Pistols are capable of one-handed operation. Vertical grips imply two-handed operation. Under 26", to have a vertical grip, you're creating an AOW and need a stamp. Over that, and you don't need a stamp.. it's large, and you're using some type of foregrip anyhow.. whether its vertical or not at that point is seen as irrelevant.

    Messing with / customizing the brace may not be a good move: too likely ATF would view anything I did to it as creating a stock (length might get beyond the elbow or something weird when used as a brace.. and if it isn't USEFUL as a brace, they'd probably say its a stock). Besides, I'm not even sure how a mod to the brace could realistically be accomplished. There is specific wording in the letters about the braces to not modify them.

    I don't mind getting something permanently attached at the muzzle to get the OAL up to snuff if really necessary. Sure, I'd love to keep the 3-lug usable to switch around devices. But the whole point is to avoid NFA stamps, so suppressors are unlikely.. and I can't see myself changing muzzle brakes / flash hiders all around anyhow. I mean. It's a 9mm. It's not like I need to experiment with more effective brakes or whatever. Find something that looks groovy and go with it. Granted, the bare 3-lug IS what looks the grooviest. But, whatever.

    I still have to select which style of brace I want. Trying to balance lengths and looks. But I'm pretty sure that the B&T styled brace would get the stock SP5k to something like 23 and change inches. A slightly extended barrel, and a permanently attached MP5 grenade launcher device or longish linear compensator, and I'm good to go. There are 4" 9mm compensators. Sadly, they have flutes on the outer housing .. so it would look a little corny. I'm thinking I could find a place to make me a simple custom comp and have it look like a small suppressor. That might be too pricey though, and the HK grenade attachment would undoubtedly provide just as much blast/shock muffling as any linear comp. Plus its a legit HK part, at least.

    A friend suggested using the linear comp and just making a sleeve to surround it, and then polish, refinish and mark it to look like a suppressor. Not a bad idea, actually.

    As far as 922r goes, I am confident that would not apply. 922r begins with the phrase "It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under ..."

    922r deals with long guns only. Pistols are exempt.
    Last edited by sickness; 09-29-2018 at 05:28 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickness View Post

    922r deals with long guns only. Pistols are exempt.
    that all makes sense it will be fun to see what you come up with!

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoLode View Post
    that all makes sense it will be fun to see what you come up with!
    Yeah! I've wanted an MP5 style gun since.. well, forever. Saw an ATI clone years back with a honking 16" barrel in a Dick's Sporting Goods. That was a no-go for me, and just solidified my desire for the real deal. I could tell it was garbage just by the fit and finish. The SP5k has not been a disappointment. Back then I was in NY, and NYers aren't allowed to have any fun toys. Recently moved to Missouri, and I've been enjoying the new-found freedom VERY much. :)

    Once I get this thing sorted, I will definitely post about it... as much as a fake can sounds neat, I think I'm leaning towards the HK launcher attachment. Might not be as pretty, but it will be "correct" in the abstract sense.

  6. #25
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    It was my understanding that the barrel length only has to be 16" for a forward grip. I'm not an attorney, and I'm subject to being wrong. I've just dealt with the ATF for a bit.
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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    It was my understanding that the barrel length only has to be 16" for a forward grip. I'm not an attorney, and I'm subject to being wrong. I've just dealt with the ATF for a bit.
    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/18/aow/
    https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-ad...-an-ar-pistol/

    Note the second link is to an attorney's website that deals with firearms issues. A handgun or pistol is designed to be fired one-handed. One of the criteria for being an AOW is to be concealable, which ATF has interpreted to being less than 26". So if your firearm is greater than 26", and you "redesign" it to be fired with two hands (adding a vert grip) you have not violated the NFA. You have turned your pistol into a "firearm."

    Witness the Remington tac-14, or the Franklin Armory XO-26. 26" is the key length for AOW status.

    So, if I can get the SP5k above 26" it won't be capable of AOW status. If it has a brace, rather than a stock, it is not an SBR. Just considered a generic "firearm" with no federal regulations attached to it.

    EDIT to add: In thinking about this, its crazy to me that the SP5k isn't considered an AOW to begin with. It has a forward handstop, comes with a sling, and the manual SHOWS usage of the included sling for two-handed operation. It's obviously designed to be fired with two hands. It is less than 26". By that criteria, why isn't an AOW? The AOW portions of the law don't specifically mention vertical grips.

    Apart from the well-known mess of ATF opinion/regulation, the only thing I can imagine comes into play there is the definition of a pistol, which includes a mention of the grip extending below the action of a gun so perhaps that has been used in some way to suggest a necessary component of "handed" usage.

    Bleh. Lawyers.
    Last edited by sickness; 09-30-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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  8. #27
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    What length should I put on my form 1 if I were to get a b&t 3 lugged/threaded barrel and b&t short stock (bt-20151)?

  9. #28
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    I was approved at 21.15 with short version and stock barrel. So I would calculate the difference of the two barrels and add that to 21.15.
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  10. #29
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    Regarding the OAL and vfg thing...this might be a problem

    https://blog.princelaw.com/2019/07/0...edium=facebook

    This is why I hate resting on this loophole/gray area stuff...some idiot is always going to poke the bear and ruin it for everyone.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post

    This is why I hate resting on this loophole/gray area stuff...
    You said it, my friend...

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