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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    If this is illegal, how are Lage uppers for MACs a thing?
    i think thats a good point tbh, especially considering the wording of how the actual sear is a machine gun, how is a sear ready clone any different than any other semi auto firearm that uses an hk trigger pack? atf says you cant do it but that doesnt mean i have to think it makes sense. maybe someone has some insight as to what the root logic of this rule is. perhaps because the m16 and mac lowers are more of a firearm thats just lacking a barrel/bolt assembly rather than the hk sear which at most is just a trigger pack. not that i expect the nfa or atf to make sense. i dont think how you can shoulder pistol braces and have an sbr without being an sbr makes sense but hey i really like that one lol its not a massive loss either, there are tons of sear host options.
    Last edited by Ferdfarming; 09-19-2018 at 01:07 AM.

  2. #12
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    The same way AR15 uppers with full auto bolt carriers are legal. The lage upper isn't considered a firearm. It's just a "part" like an AR upper is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klaustrophobia View Post
    If this is illegal, how are Lage uppers for MACs a thing?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBlaster View Post
    The same way AR15 uppers with full auto bolt carriers are legal. The lage upper isn't considered a firearm. It's just a "part" like an AR upper is.

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    ahhh ok that makes sense. hk roller lock receiver is the firearm compared to m11 and m16 lower which is firearm

    edit: where as hk trigger pack is not firearm
    Last edited by Ferdfarming; 09-19-2018 at 01:18 AM.

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  5. #14
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    On the topic of interesting listings, be sure to click through to the photos of the "trigger box" : Urbach HK MP5K-N - LaFrance 4 Position Trigger Box / ULTRA-RARE URBACH LAFRANCE COMBO HK MACHINE GUN - NFA Market Board - Sturmgewehr.com Forums
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    I don't know really anything about MACs or the SAW, but really what is the functional difference between an AR lower receiver and the HK trigger pack? They both hold the fire control group, and attach to another receiver that contains the bolt carrier group and barrel. Seems to me it really just boils down to where they decided the serialization goes way back when, and "because we said so". I guess the one difference is the AR lower also takes the magazine whereas the HK does not. And the stock kinda goes on both vs. just the lower on the AR.

  7. #16
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    We have an upcoming Crossroads of the West Gunshow here in Utah this coming weekend and am sure the folks from MGA will be there sporting a full table of their guns as usual.

    Got into a conversation with them at a show last spring; their typical "What do you think?", "Ever shot a beltfed?", "the M249/MK46/etc is what the military uses..." Blah, blah, blah... I answered that I have a MM23E/21E with registered sear, that's when they said, "You know you can use your registered sear in these guns”. I know better, but figured to inquire more; "Huh, really?" One of the guys there comments, "Oh yeah, these guns use HK trigger packs and you can use your registered sear in these.” I then said, "I don't think so, the HK registered sears can only be used on HK type roller/lock series guns that they were originally intended for; the ATF has stated this numerous times". "That's BS, we use them all the time and have approval from the ATF". I said, "That's because you have a SOT license and can use them on your posties." I then inquired, "Do any of you guys own a registered sear?" That's when this big muscle head guy joined the conversation and said, "The ATF has approved HK Sears for use in these..." I said, "Not pre-May 86 registered sears."

    I figured the conversation was going nowhere, so decided to walk away. That's when I heard muscle head make a comment to his buddy behind the table, "F-N guy thinks he knows all about HK sears." Yeah, I know my hearing kind of sucks with the constant around the clock ringing I have to deal with due to 20 years of working around screaming jet engines, but they’re still acute enough to pick up some douchebag’s comment 20 feet away a crowded noisy event center that was said about me.

    Anyone have such a letter from the ATF stating this HK sear only on HK type guns, or ATF website stating this, or is this letter vaporware? Sure would love to drop a copy on muscle head’s table this weekend after I’m sure to strike up another conversation about them. I see they still have a comment on their website mentioning use of HK registered sears…

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GPSIG View Post
    On the topic of interesting listings, be sure to click through to the photos of the "trigger box" : Urbach HK MP5K-N - LaFrance 4 Position Trigger Box / ULTRA-RARE URBACH LAFRANCE COMBO HK MACHINE GUN - NFA Market Board - Sturmgewehr.com Forums
    WTF... That's a standard factory trigger box! Hard to tell, but I believe I can see the tip of a shelf on the third pic. Obviously that pack would not fit this gun... only a PPRR. Pretty erroneous and misleading description / price if all is as it appears.
    Last edited by rickj1nd; 09-19-2018 at 11:58 AM.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickj1nd View Post
    WTF... That's a standard factory trigger box! Hard to tell, but I believe I can see the tip of a shelf on the third pic. Obviously that pack would not fit this gun... only a PPRR. Pretty erroneous and misleading description / price if all is as it appears.
    It does appear to be a standard trigger box, but I believe it is notched (see the photo from the bottom, the bright steel where it has been notched to fit over a shelf). If it is notched, then no need for PPRR, it will fit (and convert...) any semi-auto gun.

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    I see that now... my bad for not being more observant. Man, that cut still looks very shallow to me. What do you think? Would like to see a better pic of the shelf.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPSIG View Post
    It does appear to be a standard trigger box, but I believe it is notched (see the photo from the bottom, the bright steel where it has been notched to fit over a shelf). If it is notched, then no need for PPRR, it will fit (and convert...) any semi-auto gun.
    Last edited by rickj1nd; 09-19-2018 at 12:01 PM.

  11. #20
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    So, looks like MGA is back at it. They are now advertising a Closed-Bolt Full-Auto Capable Operating Group:

    https://mga1-3.myshopify.com/product...perating-group

    This is the long anticipated new full-auto capable operating group that works with Registered Sears and things like the Franklin Armory Binary Trigger.

    This is a NON-NFA item that allows those with legal sears and Binary triggers to operate their guns in full auto or near full auto speeds and avoid bolt bounce and provides other improvements for full auto use.

    This operating group upgrade is complete and should work in ALL previous models of our semi-auto M249s, MK46s, and MK48s.


    So, either they are being deliberately misleading, or somehow they think that this gets around whatever denial they had before in terms of using their guns as a host. I'd really like to see the ATF Tech branch letters either way.

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