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Thread: SP5 as sear host?

  1. #11
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    ATF letters, opinions, etc. don't really mean anything anyways.

    What does the actual law read, or more specifically, define? Most of us are capable of thinking for ourselves, and apply our own interpretations of the law as it applies to what we are looking at.
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  2. #12
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    Fundamentally and legally, you only have a MG if you get more than one round firing when you pull the trigger one time. After that, we are venturing into the land of policy, opinion, and the vast legal gray area that belongs to whoever has the money to either fight there or is the USG...in which case money is no object b/c the USG has an unlimited supply of money and lawyers thanks to your tax dollars.

    Leaving aside who will actually do a modification, it seems clear the SP5 holds some good promise as a sear host provided:
    1. It has a FULL SIZE SHELF indistinguishable from that on the 10,000s of legal HK-style guns out there (and NOT a smaller shelf like a Zenith). If the SP5 doesn't have a "standard" or full sized shelf you would need to permanently add one.
    2. It has NO FRONT PUSH PIN HOLE the same as the 10,000s of legal HK-style guns out there (and NOT a more "cosmetically correct" hole like a Zenith). SP5 achieves the paddle mag release without a through-and-through hole like 1,000s of other HK-style guns out there now.

    With both of these features in place, someone stupid enough to seek an illegal MG conversion will need to both defeat the shelf and the lack of a pin hole, i.e. a very deliberate action demonstrating clear ill intent (and not insignificant metal-working skills -- you can do it with a Dremel tool, but you have to want to do it).

    The receiver block is reminiscent of the old "no F/A carriers" in the AR-15 platform in the sense it removes metal from the area it would interface with a F/A sear (or "catch" in HK lingo). Time and practice have removed the sensitivity of a "standard" carrier in an AR, and I believe the same practices and principles apply to the HK -- specifically running an unmodified carrier in either an AR or an HK is not a significant step in an illegal conversion as a standard carrier will only contribute to F/A fire if first you have an auto-sear (and proper F/A hammer)...and all focus should properly be on these parts rather than the rather benign carrier.

    So if modified carriers are so insignificant why does the HK (and other imports) have them? Because the ATF is the gatekeeper on importing these pistols and has decided that as a matter of POLICY they will demand them for access to the U.S. market. It may not be a great thing for U.S. consumers (added cost, non-standard parts, etc.) but it is great thing for a USG bureaucrat to say they have gone "above and beyond" the requirements of the law and can never be reproached for their work by their superiors. U.S. consumers have no representative in the ATF approval process to protect their interests, and until the law changes you are gonna find increasingly funky modifications to imported guns. The good news is that there is still a measurable amount of freedom available to us once a gun is here in the U.S., and responsible firearm owners can modify their firearms consistent with the law.

  3. #13
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    Does this video help understand the details of the SP5:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCdmPfHGG9c
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    When the video above was first posted I noticed it looks like HK put a wrap-around style semi shelf on the gun. However, it appears they then proceeded to drill a front push pin hole through the right side of the shelf and the receiver has what I presume to be push pin holes in both sides of the sheet metal receiver, but they stopping just short of drilling through the other side of the shelf.

    HK then put a solid full size pin through the hole in the shelf and into the pushpin holes in the receiver (which is what the paddle mag rotates on) and the solid pin appears to have a little tack weld, similar to what keeps the standard push pin bushings from falling out of the receiver.

    Pure speculation on my part, but the rear carrier block may be there because the receiver appears to have both front push pin holes in the sheet metal and one of those front push pin holes is exposed through the right side of the semi shelf.

    Whether the regulatory agency in charge of issuing opinions on behalf of the federal government as to what constitutes a machinegun receiver would be of the opinion that an HK SP5 with its rear carrier block removed and the front shelf/exposed pin area left in its current OEM configuration rises to the level of a "machinegun receiver" is currently unknown.

    The BATFE may eventually issue guidance that something as simple as a full circumferential weld around that solid front pin fully joining it to the shelf and receiver would suffice prior to removing the rear carrier block, or they may require even more aggressive modifications like removing the front pin supporting the paddle mag, welding up the push pin holes in the receiver sheet metal, and/or removing the current shelf with the hole in it and installing an original 9X style shelf.

    Maybe we will all get lucky and the BATFE is good to remove the rear carrier block with no additional modifications to the gun.

    That said, I personally wouldn't feel comfortable at this point removing the rear carrier block in the SP5 without some sort of guidance from the tech branch.... especially in light of the fact that its been 3 to 4 years since the SP5K was released and to the best of my knowledge nobody has received formal guidance on the legality of removing the little nub under the rear sight in the SP5K, none of the major HK smith I have talked to will remove it, and the SP5K has a more traditional semi-shelf without an exposed pin hole on the right side.

    I am in no way saying somebody won't get a Zenith mod type of letter for the SP5 sometime in the future, but I wouldn't take a dremel to my SP5 rear carrier block tomorrow either.
    Last edited by jbntex; 12-05-2019 at 03:30 PM.

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    Any chance someone's seen one in person and can elaborate on if it's sear ready? Or easily modifiable to be a host for a registered sear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson184 View Post
    Any chance someone's seen one in person and can elaborate on if it's sear ready? Or easily modifiable to be a host for a registered sear?
    It has a carrier block so it is definitely not sear ready. Unclear if any smiths would be willing to modify. There's a picture of the inside of the receiver showing the block in one of the other SP5 threads, maybe in the original announcement thread.
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    Here's some better pictures of the carrier block. As you can see, only the upper step of the block would need to be milled off for a full auto carrier to clear it. That would be super easy to do with a Dremel, although, I'm not advocating it's okay to do that, but I do find it interesting that HK made that little step exactly where the cut would need to be made for full auto carrier clearance.



    Last edited by LRM19k; 12-06-2019 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #18
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    As soon as the receiver is modified, machine gun. If you modified the bolt, sear host. My 2 cents. That is why the block is on the bottom now vs. SP5k.
    No Sp5 sear host. Unless someone can mod a bolt to clear that....
    But hey, maybe some will sell their 94's a cheap prices now.
    Also, I imagine this is the same as the elites rerelease, spares laying around mobilized for cash. I doubt there will be more than 500 on this run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ottomatik View Post

    That is why the block is on the bottom now vs. SP5k.
    .
    I wonder if the new generation Sp5k to be released next month will have the new carrier block ,or possibly retain the nub below the rear sight like the first ones have? If the K’s ship with the new block it looks like it would have to be set in further in the reciever to clear the end cap possibly.

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    Mark my text...Will be OK to use SP5 as a sear host.

    Quote Originally Posted by ottomatik View Post
    As soon as the receiver is modified, machine gun. If you modified the bolt, sear host. My 2 cents. That is why the block is on the bottom now vs. SP5k.
    No Sp5 sear host. Unless someone can mod a bolt to clear that....
    But hey, maybe some will sell their 94's a cheap prices now.
    Also, I imagine this is the same as the elites rerelease, spares laying around mobilized for cash. I doubt there will be more than 500 on this run.

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