RE: The SKY IS FALLING :-) - Page 13
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Thread: RE: The SKY IS FALLING :-)

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by caf82313 View Post
    He said ATF has been inquiring of him whenever they get a transfer request for one of his frames, asking whether the rifle in which it was installed has a shelf or front pushpin. He said they are letting the transfers happen if the frame was installed in a rifle with intact shelf.
    This is interesting, and I think the ATF view (in this scenario) would be that any gun with an unmodified, intact shelf isn’t a conversion part and shouldn’t logically be the controlled or registered part. All the conversion parts are contained in the pack, and the pack has a serial number on it (what serial number isn’t important, doesn’t matter if it matches the gun any more than a suppressor with the same S/N of a gun...it doesn’t marry the controlled and uncontrolled parts.).

    This leaves aside the issue of whether or not you can then modify the pack, although I suspect you could do anything that doesn’t orphan a conversion part—so you need to keep the pack and whatever sear you have in it together. If this is their view, I can foresee a lot of registered receiver guns packs growing serial numbers...although it would need to be the S/N used on the transfer forms.


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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjrphs View Post
    Absolutely...and for me that goes without saying. Part of my point was "paperwork high jinks" over time has allowed the exact "changes" and "inaccuracies" we're discussing now.
    Or in my case, the original paperwork was in error, causing me to have to substantiate the identification of the gun before they would issue my stamp. By the way, I personally knew one of the "paperwork high jinks" guys.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by GPSIG View Post
    This is interesting, and I think the ATF view (in this scenario) would be that any gun with an unmodified, intact shelf isn’t a conversion part and shouldn’t logically be the controlled or registered part. All the conversion parts are contained in the pack, and the pack has a serial number on it (what serial number isn’t important, doesn’t matter if it matches the gun any more than a suppressor with the same S/N of a gun...it doesn’t marry the controlled and uncontrolled parts.).
    Good post and good thoughts IMO. The reason I believe a different serial # on the pack does matter is that I know of at least one case where an AR15 (SP1) was converted (pre-86) with a DIAS which was serialized with the same # as the receiver and no other alterations to the AR15 receiver were made. Box 4b described the gun as "Machine Gun -or- Machine Gun Receiver" with DIAS info listed in 4h.

    The registrant petitioned BATF to separate the DIAS from the AR15 receiver and the request was denied. Why the request to separate? Because RDIAS' are worth waaay more today than a converted SP1 of course.

    To me...it's a much stronger argument to BATF that the pack alone, is in fact the controlled part with its unique serial # listed in 4g, than if both have the same # and 4b describes a "Machine Gun." In the above AR15 conversion scenario...BATF ruled the receiver was the controlled part and the serialized DIAS could not be removed.
    Last edited by jjrphs; 04-25-2020 at 08:31 PM.
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  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnMe View Post
    LMK when they get to 15-18K. The sky may not be falling but the worlds priorities may certainly be changing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Breitling View Post
    Machinegun market has been soft for a few years now.

    And, with the state of the economy... everything that is a luxury is falling... Pateks, Audemars, G-Wagons, bottles of Willett, and yes... even machineguns. And, this is only the beginning. Can’t wait to take advantage of these down markets (being honest).
    Same here. When sears hit about $5k, I'm in, lol.
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  6. #125
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    Buy now!!
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  7. #126
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    And so @caf82313 @SudS @jjrphs @GPSIG

    Very educational and informative...…….thank you all for the detailed background/insight on these!!!! I guess, perhaps it would {just a suggestion} be an idea if maybe HKPRO had an ATF section????{Yes that's a question}…..Maybe a section where an actual agent could provide "solid" answers rather than our speculation??? @straightgrain this is merely an "idea". I know that none of us want to have our stuff confiscated to the tune of 10 years and $250K fine per conviction.

    Is this doable??????
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  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    And so @caf82313 @SudS @jjrphs @GPSIG

    Very educational and informative...…….thank you all for the detailed background/insight on these!!!! I guess, perhaps it would {just a suggestion} be an idea if maybe HKPRO had an ATF section????{Yes that's a question}…..Maybe a section where an actual agent could provide "solid" answers rather than our speculation??? @straightgrain this is merely an "idea". I know that none of us want to have our stuff confiscated to the tune of 10 years and $250K fine per conviction.

    Is this doable??????
    You’d never find one that would post and, if you did, I would be suspect of everything said.
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  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucers99 View Post
    You’d never find one that would post and, if you did, I would be suspect of everything said.
    Well.....well.....

    I get your point. It would be nice though if we actually had a section, so that we're not all spit balling. And don't get me wrong,
    there's a wealth of knowledge on this board, but I'd love to have an actual section where the alphabet people would/could correct
    "speculation vs. reality". Thanks for your input though.

  10. #129
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    Absolutely NEVER happen, for a bunch of reasons I won’t get into. Not to mention all the incredibly stupid questions some people here would ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    And so @caf82313 @SudS @jjrphs @GPSIG

    Very educational and informative...…….thank you all for the detailed background/insight on these!!!! I guess, perhaps it would {just a suggestion} be an idea if maybe HKPRO had an ATF section????{Yes that's a question}…..Maybe a section where an actual agent could provide "solid" answers rather than our speculation??? @straightgrain this is merely an "idea". I know that none of us want to have our stuff confiscated to the tune of 10 years and $250K fine per conviction.

    Is this doable??????
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  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by SudS View Post
    Absolutely NEVER happen, for a bunch of reasons I won’t get into. Not to mention all the incredibly stupid questions some people here would ask.
    Thanks @SudS . As usual, I fully expected you, and a couple others to crush my spirits <sigh>

    I'll go back to spectator mode.

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